Kristen Siermachesky - Gamechanger - On the Ice or In the Water

Today we talk with UNC Women's Rowing team member Kristen Siermachesky. This gamechanger takes us on her journey from a captain of the women's hockey team at Syracuse University to working on her masters degree and being a leader on the rowing team at the University of North Carolina. Kristen is an influential leader who has had an impact at every stop along her leadership path.

What we discuss:
-Leaving home at 14 to pursue her dream
-The influence and role of family on someone's leadership development
-How stepping up for your teammates and community can build capacity and growth
-Being a leader when times are tough
-Changing positions at a critical time your career
-Making your mark through a positive attitude and building up others
-Having an impact on a team based on everything BUT skill
-How being a quality leader can help build a better team culture
-Even the best of us have bad days sometimes

Connect with us:
https://linktr.ee/BenchmarkedPodcast

Thanks for listening to our show. If you like what you hear leave us a comment and review.
KEEP CRUSHING IT!

Mizuno


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Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:22:05
Speaker 1
Hey, team, welcome the Benchmarked. Thank you for joining us today, Coach Messier, along with Coach Larocque. We have a great show lined up with you, and that is because we have someone with us who I cannot wait to catch up with. She is a tremendous person, an amazing talent and an outstanding leader. And quite simply, probably one of the best character people I have ever met.

00:00:22:20 - 00:00:45:08
Speaker 1
Her abilities are so unique. She was able to excel at hockey for four years in the Syracuse women's hockey program. And now she's switched gears and she's on the University of North Carolina's rowing team, where she's pursuing her master's degree in sports administration in her time at Syracuse. She was involved in many community service initiatives for fellow athletes.

00:00:45:17 - 00:01:03:20
Speaker 1
She's been a leader in diversity and inclusion and has since been nominated as NCW, a woman of the Year. And maybe best of all, she's a northern girl. Kristen Siermachesky, thank you for taking the time to speak with us today all the way from Sunny University in North Carolina.

00:01:04:13 - 00:01:06:13
Speaker 2
Well, that's called the intro. Thanks for having me

00:01:06:13 - 00:01:27:13
Speaker 1
Me. Well, you're in a bit of a big deal. You're a big deal. I said when I said to Laura and I was I guess is going to be on the show tonight, she's like, who? I said, I'll give you a hint. Tall, blond cake pops. And she was like, oh, my God. So, Gigi, when I think Lauren was in grade eight, when Kristen was playing hockey for me at Nelson, and she's Lauren would come and skate with the girls.

00:01:27:19 - 00:01:35:15
Speaker 1
Kris is like, don't worry, I'll go get her. So she'd go to the elementary school, pick up my kid, and they'd let her go. I'm like, I don't.

00:01:35:16 - 00:01:38:16
Speaker 2
Know. What was the last of class.

00:01:39:01 - 00:01:42:14
Speaker 3
So I'm glad you did. The intro kicks out of butchered that last name so hard.

00:01:44:19 - 00:02:04:17
Speaker 1
Well, I have to throw a shout out. Obviously, you're a talented athlete and that comes from your family. And before I forget, like, your parents are both amazing athletes. I know your dad was a national level high jumper in the Pan Am games. Mom ran track at Western rate. I believe that's so. I mean, it's got to come to you naturally, like a new multi-sport athlete.

00:02:05:02 - 00:02:14:15
Speaker 1
Here's a here's a we always love to promote our multi-sport athletes because I remember when you were at Nelson, you did a little bit everything. You're not just a hockey player.

00:02:14:15 - 00:02:46:10
Speaker 2
And now I'll never forget the first time I played field hockey. Nelson hadn't done that up north, so that was really fun. And then, of course, back in U.S.A., I my parents really wanted to me to pursue what they did and do track and field. And I really like hockey more than anything. But I ended up going off and I got two medals at Augusta for the 800 and discus, the most the most random random events but it's quite a big experience.

00:02:46:18 - 00:02:47:20
Speaker 1
That's so cool.

00:02:48:01 - 00:02:52:18
Speaker 3
Discus are sort of throwing rocks at the lakes in their last year is just that's what you're used to. That's why I.

00:02:53:02 - 00:03:13:17
Speaker 2
Pretty much I got home. So I moved when I was in grade nine, I moved to Nelson, lived in Burlington and when I went home the summer of grade nine, that's when I started to learn how to throw a discus. And I think I had like a month before officer to learn how to throw it and it just flew.

00:03:13:19 - 00:03:17:15
Speaker 2
It just worked. So I wasn't going to fight it. We just did it.

00:03:17:20 - 00:03:37:02
Speaker 1
Just an athlete. I love it. So like let's backtrack because I haven't talked to you for three or four years now. So Syracuse, you had a great career. It's your story. Syracuse, the team went to the tournament. You guys made it. I remember you guys went to the playoffs. You guys had a great time there. I remember you were a defense, your career defenseman.

00:03:37:02 - 00:04:01:17
Speaker 1
And I remember I think you came on me like they moved me to forward and you accept it and a lot of the things that we talk about is adapting and evolving and accepting challenges. And how did you I remember that when that happened, and I mean, you were an amazing defenseman and I remember, you know, the circumstances they needed you at forward and you ended up selling in and had a great career as a forward.

00:04:02:03 - 00:04:10:13
Speaker 1
Tell me how you worked through that adversity and how that's kind of been a cornerstone in your success as you've gone through all the stages of your life.

00:04:11:05 - 00:04:30:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. I mean, I think even before changing from defense to forward, I will say the struggle of freshman year was just so real. I think just having to embrace being a good teammate by sitting on the bench sometimes was not something that I mean, that anyone's used to coming into, you know, coming into a great division one program.

00:04:30:12 - 00:04:50:19
Speaker 2
We're all used to, you know, recruited. We're all used to being stars of some sort. So I think even before changing from defense to forward, it was the struggle of just figuring out that like, okay, I'm not on every second shift. That's not how it's going to be. I have to work my way there. So and I think that's kind of where the position switch came into play.

00:04:50:19 - 00:05:10:08
Speaker 2
It was like, you're probably going to get more playing time at forward. We need you there. And I was hands-down going to do whatever it took for the team, but I was you know, I was kind of freaking out a little bit. I'd been studying to the point everything about every face off from the defensive side, and then all of a sudden, you know, throw you into forwards.

00:05:10:13 - 00:05:32:21
Speaker 2
And that's how it worked. It was honestly, I remember, I remember with the it's a very old barn and had like wooden roof. I can't even remember what it was when it was, but my coach came up to me and he's like, so did you check out the the place from forwards perspective? I'm like, no. They're like, yeah, yeah, look at that.

00:05:32:21 - 00:05:51:23
Speaker 2
That was my to you that I was it amazed. So I will never forget and I just went downstairs, lifted all the face off, started figuring out, okay, where do I need to be? All these crazy things. And it was just, it just came down to the fact that like that's what the team needed that's what I needed to do and embraced it.

00:05:52:23 - 00:06:11:15
Speaker 1
You know, we always say and it's crazy because we were talking about before the show how you know, things happen to you. And it's just like you just you just take care of it. And we always say things happen for you, not to you. And then you went on and you had an amazing career. And, you know, beyond the hockey, I know there's a lot of stuff we could talk about the hockey.

00:06:11:15 - 00:06:30:21
Speaker 1
But I remember watching and following on social media. You were doing so many things off the ice at Syracuse. House, and to me, that's that always made me proud, knowing that the type of person you were, you were involved in the community right away. Tell us a little bit about how you got started doing that. Why what was the motivation behind that?

00:06:30:21 - 00:06:39:01
Speaker 1
And share with us some of the amazing things that you're able to do. I'm pumping your tires here, but I want to hear all the amazing things that you did at Syracuse.

00:06:39:18 - 00:06:59:15
Speaker 2
Okay. Well, I mean, it all started well. As soon as I got to Syracuse, I thought, okay, I'm just going to kind of focus on school and hockey, school and hockey, and, you know, you don't have much time, so you're trying to figure out all those things to start. And one of my teammates, Lindsay Eastwood, she was always like kind of like my big sister right off the hot.

00:06:59:15 - 00:07:18:17
Speaker 2
So anything she did, I would, you know, try to mimic her. She's a great defenseman. And off the ice on a Wednesday night she's like, Kristen, I'm going to sack them. Like, I don't know what Zach is, but there is free pizza, so I'm going to go and eat free meals. Right? So I went with her and it was a student athlete advisory committee.

00:07:18:23 - 00:07:41:10
Speaker 2
And I met, you know, there's two representatives from every team at Syracuse, and it's pretty much the it's the student athlete voice. So we have the opportunity to, you know, change legislation at the NCAA level. We have a vote like we have all these super important things as a student athlete. So as a fresh fan and see, not for the first time, it was mostly about meeting people.

00:07:41:10 - 00:08:07:01
Speaker 2
But then when I figured out like the different impacts that you can have on the school and the community through those things, I was like, Yeah, I want to do this. So my sophomore year and my my junior year, I just kept going and I was really involved. I became like a committee had we have a bunch of different committees, a community service committee, social media, kind of different campaigns that we were doing and from there it just kept going.

00:08:07:01 - 00:08:34:07
Speaker 2
And then my senior year I ended up being the president of PSAC, so we got to do so many different initiatives in the community. We at Syracuse, during the time of social unrest, we actually conducted our first ever like black Athletes Lives Matter March. So we pretty much shut down like the whole side of campus that was for athletes and had every single athlete marching by team with signs.

00:08:34:07 - 00:08:47:03
Speaker 2
It was covered. So we had to separate it, we had to make schedules, we had to transit involved so they could block the cars. Like we just tried to make the biggest impact. We tried in any way possible so yeah, that was huge.

00:08:47:03 - 00:08:50:09
Speaker 1
I felt like there's a ton of athletes at Syracuse that's a big athletic department.

00:08:50:09 - 00:09:15:06
Speaker 2
So that's that's a small task. And I think the biggest one of the most important parts and I mean, that's just a student athlete advisory committee, but it was student run. You know, these are things that students cared about you know, we wanted to go work with the Boys and Girls Club and we wanted to go see underprivileged schools and bring them books and, you know, teach them how to play different sports that they don't have the opportunity to play.

00:09:15:06 - 00:09:40:23
Speaker 2
So we always kind of did things that we felt were impactful instead of, you know, getting told what to do that will help someone. You know, it was a lot of things that we actually wanted to do. So that was one thing. And then junior year a couple of student athletes came to to SAC and said we need to have more of a diversity and inclusion committee.

00:09:41:03 - 00:10:08:06
Speaker 2
So instead of making a committee, we actually made a whole other group. So a total separate group. I was the vice vice president of that group, and it was the diversity and inclusion student athlete board. So same type of thing, but everything to do with diversity and inclusion issues on that front. So that started evolving and SAC and DC, we called it kind of mashed together to just have a huge impact on the community.

00:10:09:14 - 00:10:18:00
Speaker 2
And then at the same time I was super involved in the Fellowship for Christian Athletes, where I soon became the captain of that group too.

00:10:18:00 - 00:10:23:24
Speaker 1
So people recognize your leadership skills, right? Wherever you went, which is I.

00:10:24:06 - 00:10:43:16
Speaker 2
I battled so hard with one that as soon as you said that, it made me think of I was the president of PSAC and that was my passion. I mean, I got to know all these student athletes make an impact. And then when the diversity of student athlete, the diversity and inclusion group kind of opened up and came to fruition, they're like, we need leadership.

00:10:43:20 - 00:11:03:02
Speaker 2
And I'll never forget when one of the administrators said, Kristen, you need to do this. I was like, I'm super passionate about this, but my time is so spent, I don't know what to do. And it just turned out that people started asking me questions. People were turning to me, and I I could have not had to.

00:11:03:04 - 00:11:05:06
Speaker 1
It took a life of its own and just evolved. Right.

00:11:05:16 - 00:11:08:22
Speaker 2
Exactly. So I I'm very, very happy I did, but.

00:11:09:02 - 00:11:28:20
Speaker 1
It's so cool and to me, this is where it gets interesting because you were doing a lot of this during very challenging times, like like social. Like you say, some social unrest was going on COVID like that. To me, we were. Another thing that we talk about all the time is it's easy to be a leader when it's nice and easy and there's no challenges going on.

00:11:29:01 - 00:11:49:02
Speaker 1
The bullets aren't flying. That's tough. You stepped up when your team needed you the most, when your school needed you your most, and the community needed you the most, which is a testament to your leadership. Which is amazing. And then, of course, I see master's degree in sports administration makes sense. It was. Was were they connected? That's what I wanted to ask you next.

00:11:49:02 - 00:11:55:20
Speaker 1
And I feel like we're going to jump all over the timeline of your last six or seven years here. But what did one lead to the other?

00:11:56:23 - 00:12:23:16
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think I learned a lot from the administrators at Syracuse. I think I learned the power that they do have and the power that they don't have. And I kind of figured out that I was already in store management. So I was learning a lot about pro sports mostly. But I really learned that I wanted to work in college athletics I wanted to be I wanted to have the impact that those administrators had on me.

00:12:23:16 - 00:12:45:00
Speaker 2
You know, they were they were empowering us as students to do what we wanted to do to impact the people we wanted to impact. And I that's it. That's what I want to be. And that's my overall arching goal is to be an athletic director one day. So, wow, I think just I feel like I've Syracuse and here at USC also like it's very student athlete centered.

00:12:45:17 - 00:12:54:21
Speaker 2
But I know there's a lot of schools and institutions that aren't so I feel like if there's a place I can have an impact, it would be to make those things student athlete centered.

00:12:55:11 - 00:13:14:10
Speaker 1
And that's another thing is we always like to say you want to be athlete led, not coach fed. So if it's top down, you're not going to have as much success as if it's from bottom up, right? So like you look like you're trying to make some changes, which is really cool. Now, let's back up again. Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

00:13:14:21 - 00:13:27:02
Speaker 1
You go from the frozen ice, frozen water to rowing. Oh, my God. How did this come about? This is this is so cool. Yeah, I'm surprised, but it's cool.

00:13:27:20 - 00:13:54:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. So actually, first of all, senior year at Syracuse, when we talk about like a difficult time to leave, that was probably the craziest time I've ever been in as a leader covered trying to get the season to keep going. But, you know, teams are folding left and right. Teams are can't compete because they have COVID cases. We were the only team in our conference that didn't have a COVID case till postseason.

00:13:55:05 - 00:14:11:15
Speaker 2
And while we were very, very strict as leaders in terms of like, if you want to play, we need to be serious about this. So we only hung out with our team and we wanted to do everything possible to get us in a winning position.

00:14:13:20 - 00:14:37:06
Speaker 2
That was probably the hardest year in terms of leadership. But I see just as soon as senior year was done, of course, there's the awkward offering of a six year or a fifth year. And I had those conversations with my coach and we both kind of agreed that it was time, you know, it was time for me to do whatever was next and I was really thinking about playing in Europe.

00:14:37:19 - 00:14:58:15
Speaker 2
That was kind of my that was my number one at the time. And then actually one of the administrators at Syracuse said, Have you ever heard of this program at UNC Chapel Hill? It's the number one program in the States. They only let in nine people a year. So we got to get rolling on this application. And I was like, Well, you know, I'll apply, but I don't think I'll get in anyway.

00:14:58:15 - 00:15:25:20
Speaker 2
The athletic director wrote me an amazing recommendation. Administrators helped out and I wrote it and I was like, Okay, so I've achieved that dream. Now what am I going to do in my free time? So I reached out to the rowing coach at the time, and I got on the phone with her and she she kind of said, Okay, like, we'd love to have you on our team.

00:15:25:20 - 00:15:48:05
Speaker 2
We can kind of talk more when you get to campus. So I was kind of frozen there for a little bit. I was like unofficially announced as being on the team, but we weren't too sure. And then that whole coaching staff left. So here I am in an awkward position again. Like, did this did that commitment mean anything in my actually going to be rowing?

00:15:48:16 - 00:16:14:00
Speaker 2
Is the new coach going to want to teach me how I don't know. So anyway, it turns out the new coach started calling everyone that was on her list and the new coach was is a mentor like absolute all star. She's just amazing. So I get on the phone with Erin and we're having 15 minute conversations with everyone on the team, so we're rushing through everything and I'm like, Do you even want me?

00:16:14:00 - 00:16:34:23
Speaker 2
Like, I used to be a hockey player. I've never rowed before. I don't know, like you row backwards like I didn't even know that and I knew nothing. And she's like, Yes, Kristen, we want you. We need you. Even if it's not on the water, like we need you as a leader on our team. And I'll never forget when she said that because I'm like, you know what?

00:16:35:10 - 00:17:02:11
Speaker 2
Even if I have zero impact on the boat moving, I she wants me to have an impact on the scene. So I'll read into it as soon as you got to campus. Brand new coaching staff. She pretty much picked it up from from the ground and again I was the only one that had never rowed so there was it normally in rowing there's like a walk on season where they teach they teach everyone who's walking on how to row.

00:17:02:12 - 00:17:22:02
Speaker 2
Well she's a brand new coach. She didn't want that. I was the only one. So she just threw me in a boat with all these girls that have already rowed and was like, You'll figure it out, Chris. No problem. I was so scared. And the boat is tippy and I don't open this. I was calling it a paddle.

00:17:22:02 - 00:17:28:14
Speaker 2
It's called an order. And anyway, just it was the craziest time. And then it kind of just took off from there.

00:17:30:04 - 00:17:34:10
Speaker 1
And so, like, how many people in your boat, like, where is it how you do in an eight person boat?

00:17:34:16 - 00:17:48:15
Speaker 2
Yes. So I'm in a well, it depends. We rowing eights or fours where the most part we did one race in the fall and I was in the first eight. In the first four. So but you know what?

00:17:49:07 - 00:18:05:13
Speaker 1
It makes sense if anybody's if anybody is listening to this or watching this show and they know you, that nobody's going to be like, well, that's kind of surprising. Surman Chayefsky's doing that right? Nobody's going to say it because your attitude's amazing. And you know what I think as being a hockey player and I'm partial to hockey players, you know what hard work is?

00:18:05:18 - 00:18:23:20
Speaker 1
You know what? Pushing your body to the brink of pain is the training that you need to compete at the NCAA level is. So it's probably not a bad transition. And you're a mature athlete, a mature adult. So why not? You'll you'll work, right? So what do you got to lose?

00:18:24:16 - 00:18:42:14
Speaker 2
I still. I still do have to admit, as I was changing sports, I was thinking to myself, like, this can't be much harder than hockey. You know, like a one minute shift is, you know, pretty gut wrenching when you're when you're working hard and you're, you know, you're at one or something. It's true. It's pretty hard on the body.

00:18:44:01 - 00:19:15:17
Speaker 2
No, nothing compares, really. It is like I, I genuinely was going into it thinking, oh, will be good. And it's a whole different beast. So I just think there are some things like I was mentally prepared, I was physically prepared, but I just didn't know what it really meant to to do that different sport. And obviously now I do and I it's really cool to draw comparisons to the hockey and rowing and just the different teams and the dynamics and all that stuff.

00:19:15:17 - 00:19:17:16
Speaker 2
But so there's a lot to prepare.

00:19:18:03 - 00:19:35:18
Speaker 1
That leads me into asking you because I asked this question. A lot of our guests, especially as they mean some of our guests who've transitioned from being a player to a coach and for you you've transitioned from being a member of a certain team to another team. What builds good culture on teams? You've been in a lot of different locker rooms.

00:19:35:18 - 00:19:55:00
Speaker 1
You've played for a lot of different coaches I'm sure you've had. And I know that when you're in the area here, yet you played on winning successful programs, you've had a lot of experience now. What do you think are some of the cornerstones of creating good culture, you know, in a team, a school, something like that? In a locker room?

00:19:55:14 - 00:20:39:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean, that's a loaded question, but I think culture has to be driven from the core. I think once, once I remember that Syracuse was the first time that we really developed core values, and those were just like buzzwords that you actually believe in. And I think once every single person was on board with the common goal, but believing that we can believe that and achieve that goal through these things, it was a game changer to think that every single person on that team won the year we won our first conference championship ever.

00:20:40:07 - 00:21:02:12
Speaker 2
We're devoted to these three words character, discipline, passion. I'll never forget them. They're on every one of our six character discipline, passion. And it's the same thing here at USC. There's we're in the process now from a new coaching staff. We're trying to develop core values. And we just had that initial meeting like two weeks ago and I, I asked my coach for it.

00:21:02:22 - 00:21:18:01
Speaker 2
I said, I think we need to, we need to like figure out what girls actually want to do here. Like, do they want us to change the program around? Because that's where it comes from. It's the core. If the girls don't want to do it, if the team doesn't want to do it, then and what does it really mean?

00:21:18:01 - 00:21:21:04
Speaker 2
So that's how I would start John.

00:21:21:05 - 00:21:41:18
Speaker 1
Jill and I talk we and we talk about this in a few of our shows, right about like you can have those words a character, passion, commitment all. But what does it mean? Like you get to define it. So as a teammate, I need to know what character is like. I tell you what character is. I know what you know it means, but not everybody has the same benchmark of what that is, that same.

00:21:41:18 - 00:21:59:10
Speaker 1
So that's kind of why we named the show Benchmark, because it's the standard. What is that mean? What does effort mean? While your effort is different than mine, but this is what we want, right? So we just have like kind of what you're saying, just having the words can be empty if you're not acting on those words. Right.

00:21:59:22 - 00:22:19:08
Speaker 2
Exactly. And one thing that we did a lot of, and I would encourage anyone to do a lot of is, yes, you have those work as a team, but what do those words you know, those words can mean something personally to you, too. And for me, like, again, we developed a definition of a for the team of character.

00:22:19:13 - 00:22:48:18
Speaker 2
We developed examples, you know, off the ice. This is what it looks like on the ice is what it looks like. But then I also did it for myself. And, you know, maybe I held myself to like an extra high standard just because that's that's how I want it to be. Or maybe I had different examples. I wanted to draw it in my head, but really kind of digging into those on a personal level and kind of matching it up with your playing style, I find really can make a big difference to me.

00:22:48:23 - 00:23:10:11
Speaker 3
And jump in here, Mark. So when you have a fan on and we're trying to put the heat in our house, is to it looks like you have I'm just changing gears. You look like you have different gears like you're going to go from I don't know how much it trying to ask this question, but it looks like you find different years for different things.

00:23:10:19 - 00:23:27:17
Speaker 3
When I heard you talk about hockey or transitioning as a leader or I don't I could just see something different in you that you just went from like, hey, it's having a great day to like, you know, like I'm dialed in and then I come back out and then I dial back in. How do you do that? And what's that look like and where's that come from?

00:23:27:17 - 00:23:30:05
Speaker 3
That's three questions. First of all, where does it come from?

00:23:30:14 - 00:23:33:08
Speaker 2
Yeah, where does it come from?

00:23:33:23 - 00:23:37:19
Speaker 3
I think, you know, do you even think you have that? So I may be labeling your family. I just feel I.

00:23:37:22 - 00:24:06:23
Speaker 2
Know you're totally right. I, I think those gears, if you will, have made me be relatable, if that makes any sense. Yeah, I, some people could say, oh, you have two different, you know, two different sides to you. Well, I do. And it's one is a very, like, welcoming, personal side, but the other is like, are we going to do this type of side?

00:24:06:23 - 00:24:34:09
Speaker 2
And I think that could be it can be a blessing and a curse because sometimes it's too intense back and forth. But I also think it's just been something it's been a way that I've been able to understand people better because there's both sides of that on every single team. And I think those relationships I've been able to kind of cultivate from both of those different gears, if you will, as has been helpful.

00:24:35:12 - 00:24:55:00
Speaker 3
But in leadership, and I'm assuming you've been in these roles from leadership, you've had to adapt your style, your personality, I guess, to be able to fit all the different types of people that work with you. Because if I'm, again, making assumptions, if you're just like, this is black and white and this is how I am, it's not going to go very far.

00:24:55:01 - 00:25:10:20
Speaker 3
It'll be more of a dictatorship than anything. But it looks like you've been able to have people work with you and you with people, but it's being able to adapt to the people around you at the same time. And I guess it's different having to be different types of personalities, but still being true to yourself. And that's very confusing.

00:25:10:20 - 00:25:11:19
Speaker 3
But I really I guess.

00:25:12:02 - 00:25:31:07
Speaker 2
I no, I totally agree. I don't even know if I would say like adapt myself. I think I would just say learn about them. I think a lot of the time it's more I try to stay true to myself and maybe like like you say, adapt the way I say something or, you know, the strategy that I take to approaching something.

00:25:31:07 - 00:25:51:06
Speaker 2
But I think it really stems from understanding what they need. And a lot of the time, a lot of the time, someone does need to be hyped up. So I'll turn that side up or I'll get or someone else will help them out by really being loud to them. And then, you know, you realize that someone else is a is a more quiet they need they need the X's and O's.

00:25:51:06 - 00:26:00:22
Speaker 2
And so you kind of draw that side out a little bit more. So I think a lot of that does come from really understanding who you're who you're trying to lead at the time also.

00:26:01:10 - 00:26:03:06
Speaker 3
And sort of one marker and I'll let you jump in here.

00:26:05:04 - 00:26:06:23
Speaker 1
Well, you're always taking over.

00:26:09:05 - 00:26:23:01
Speaker 3
What motivates the motivator? It looks like you're self-motivated person, but like, you know, tend to motivate others. But people like you also need to be motivated some other way. So is it you get it from someone or something else or you find ways to self motivate yourself?

00:26:24:13 - 00:26:55:02
Speaker 2
It's a loaded question, too. I have always for some reason I, I like to say that I'm self-motivated because, you know, I'd like to say I don't need anyone to motivate me, but I definitely do. I think I think every single person has this has their own leadership style and way that kind of pieces, everything together and it just happens that people sometimes will look at me for the overall leadership, but it comes from everyone else.

00:26:55:16 - 00:27:06:02
Speaker 2
So yes, I like to say I'm self motivated, but I definitely pick up those pieces from everyone else and I think so you ask a lot of questions. I have to give a lot of answers.

00:27:06:07 - 00:27:08:18
Speaker 1
That's good. That's what we hear from the show. Is about our guests.

00:27:08:18 - 00:27:09:17
Speaker 3
Not us, but not about.

00:27:09:17 - 00:27:31:14
Speaker 2
Us. So I think one of the other big things that I've learned is and this is super personal, but I would hope and I know for a fact there's a lot of leaders that feel the same way is like, I am driven to impact people. Yes. I want to impact the win at the end of the race or the game.

00:27:32:00 - 00:27:41:24
Speaker 2
But as Erin, as my coach said when she was kind of recruiting me, like there's anything you can do if you can impact this team with your with your character, with your personality.

00:27:43:03 - 00:27:58:07
Speaker 1
That's enough that speaks a lot to the coach. That's driven to get better. And she didn't even talk about growing it. She didn't even probably buy the sounds of the story. You're saying they'd even seen your role yet.

00:27:59:02 - 00:28:04:18
Speaker 2
You didn't even see me. I could. I could have been four feet. I say there's.

00:28:04:18 - 00:28:05:23
Speaker 1
Nothing wrong with being four feet.

00:28:06:05 - 00:28:07:23
Speaker 2
Hey, you know what?

00:28:09:07 - 00:28:12:10
Speaker 1
This is the tallest person on this call is not you. And I said.

00:28:14:12 - 00:28:21:07
Speaker 2
You know, like, for all she knew, I could have been a coxswain. Yeah. Yeah, like, it's. Yeah, she didn't know anything.

00:28:21:16 - 00:28:40:21
Speaker 1
While I'm going to say this, and I'm going embarrass you by saying this, but I remember the first day I met you, and you came into our office, and I think you were with Steph Ayres, I think. And she introduced you to us, and you left. Everybody looked at each other like that is the great one of the greatest human beings we've ever.

00:28:40:21 - 00:29:08:12
Speaker 1
And we all fell in love with you. We didn't throw seconds. And that's the type of energy that you bring to a room, to a team, to the situation that you're in. And I remember when you're graduating and I want to show you something, by the way, remember this? Oh, and I had my I got my Syracuse hockey shirt, too, is like I got to put that on as it's like and I forgot, but I was like, you know what?

00:29:08:12 - 00:29:23:19
Speaker 1
You were just you were an impact. You left little forget about the coasters. But every time I have a coffee, I always think of you want to have a coffee? And I put on the Syracuse coaster. But it's like, you were more of an impact in all of our lives. And we coached you like like that was the thing.

00:29:23:19 - 00:29:40:01
Speaker 1
I was just like, hang on, I'm the coach. I'm supposed to be the one. But you were one of those people. You were an energy donor. And it was just like, you know, I think of you, I use the analogy, the 1080 ten, and I'm sure you've heard about that, right? Like the inner ten and the 80 you are like the inner to like that.

00:29:40:01 - 00:30:02:14
Speaker 1
That's the way I've always seen you. So, like, for me to see you doing this stuff, it's, it's, it's awesome. And I mean, we're not surprised by it, and nobody in my family surprised by it. Nobody that, you know, has ever been around you surprised by it. But again, you circled back. If you've ever met our parents, it's this and your sister's the same way like they give of themselves, the community that it's in your nature.

00:30:02:14 - 00:30:14:08
Speaker 1
How important has your family forget about the great genetics how important has your family been in supporting you in your journey and not just your sports journey, but your leadership journey?

00:30:14:22 - 00:30:18:13
Speaker 2
Yeah, I will say thank you for all that, by the way.

00:30:20:15 - 00:30:44:13
Speaker 2
When I was bugging my parents to move from New Leicester to Stoney Creek, my mom was hard enough. My mom was like, Why would I let my child move away from home when she's going into Grade nine? And of course my mom was going to be my high school principal. She was like, Oh, finally I get to watch her all the time and she was hard.

00:30:44:13 - 00:30:49:21
Speaker 2
No. And it took a lot of convincing. Yes. I made a PowerPoint, you know, I did all these things of.

00:30:49:21 - 00:30:50:11
Speaker 1
Course you did.

00:30:52:14 - 00:31:16:19
Speaker 2
And my mom have a real conversation when we sat down and had a very adult talk was she's like, I just want you to be a well-rounded person. I don't ever want you to think you are moving just for hockey. You're going to go to school, you're going to meet friends, you're going to play other sports. And I think that's one thing that stuck stuck with me forever.

00:31:16:19 - 00:31:44:22
Speaker 2
I mean, even at Syracuse. Yes. I was just focusing on hockey and academics to start. And then I kind of got to develop that that well-rounded ness as I as I got comfortable. And it's the same thing here. I started with my program and then rowing and now I'm kind of, you know, getting into the leadership academy here, helping out a little bit and continuing to kind of evolve that well-rounded ness I don't think I have enough time to myself, but I don't want it.

00:31:45:21 - 00:31:56:07
Speaker 2
I get that all the time. Take time for yourself, but I will be looking for something to do in that time. So and that's not for everyone, but I do know myself in that way.

00:31:56:18 - 00:32:20:12
Speaker 3
So like so Syracuse and North Carolina right now. So you you know, try and summarize and then jump in at any time, any of you. Does it seem like it seems to me that you kind of took care of yourself, not a selfish way. Like I got to get my hockey together, I got to get myself together. And I'm thinking from a leadership perspective or, you know, whoever's listening, it could be somebody in a business or a sport.

00:32:20:12 - 00:32:35:10
Speaker 3
Or whatever. You had to take care of yourself before you can take care of others. Not in a selfish way, but I'm saying, okay, I got my hockey squared away. I got my academics squared away. I have 50 minutes of time. I'm willing to give it to whoever. Okay, let's go. What does that sound about? Right.

00:32:36:04 - 00:33:04:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, I think without without sounding selfish, making sure that I had myself squared away means what that means to me is making sure that what I'm doing is, like, is a passion of mine. I think a lot of the time I maybe got I didn't really get myself into things that I wasn't passionate about. So I think finding finding those things that you actually like to do, then I can bring people with them.

00:33:04:22 - 00:33:18:01
Speaker 2
Then I could show people the way I. I would never if I didn't love them and didn't really want to do it. I, I would struggle to, to bring someone into it or to, to even explain it to them. To be honest.

00:33:18:14 - 00:33:36:13
Speaker 3
So what I loved what you said about freshman year because that was just scary. And again, let alone freshman year of college, freshman year at Nelson, a great nine and a new community, new city. So can you speak to other when we say freshman here for listeners, I'll use it as a freshman as it can be your first job.

00:33:36:21 - 00:33:45:17
Speaker 3
It could be your freshman year in college, university. Use whatever context you need here. What some advice you would give a life freshman.

00:33:46:11 - 00:33:46:22
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:33:47:01 - 00:33:52:05
Speaker 3
To we asked the easiest questions on the show. Yeah.

00:33:53:23 - 00:33:55:13
Speaker 2
Good thing I have this notebook here.

00:33:57:22 - 00:33:59:20
Speaker 3
You have that blue highlighter I saw earlier. Yeah.

00:33:59:24 - 00:34:04:04
Speaker 2
Yes, I should. My my Carolina blue highlighter. I have a blue one and an orange one.

00:34:04:06 - 00:34:08:22
Speaker 1
Are you are you one of those? I was going to say you have everything color coordinated on the calendar, don't you?

00:34:09:12 - 00:34:11:10
Speaker 3
Look at look at her fingernail.

00:34:11:10 - 00:34:17:02
Speaker 2
Same thing let's forget it's a podcast. So not that I'm jealous.

00:34:17:02 - 00:34:22:15
Speaker 1
That's okay. It's going to be on YouTube, too, but I'm jealous. Like she's got a tan. You and I are sitting here in winter.

00:34:23:02 - 00:34:29:03
Speaker 3
Yeah. And I saw you wore white. I'm wearing white and it makes us look even crazier anyway. So please go back to the freshman thing.

00:34:29:11 - 00:35:17:02
Speaker 2
Yes, freshman. Freshman obviously, depending on what it what it is, where I think no matter what, it's staying true to those core values and in yourself I think I don't want to sound like every other person that's been competitive, but like set goals if even if it's your first year of school, like set a goal of meeting two new people, going out to lunch with a new person, like setting little tiny goals because then you, you know, the feeling of achieving and I think within setting those goals, you kind of figure out new things that you value, maybe your core values slightly change or expand as you're going through that time.

00:35:17:02 - 00:35:32:09
Speaker 2
And you can speak to that. Is it as a new job, as a new a new place of living? Like whatever that new thing is, it's really realizing that you're you're still you you just have new things to attack that makes any sense. Oh, yeah.

00:35:33:16 - 00:35:57:01
Speaker 1
Yeah. No, I love that. It's so good because it's like, you know, you come into a new situation and are you going to let the situation control you or are you going to take control of your situation, which is what we talk about here, right? Jee like you control your destiny, you control the controllable. You can put yourself out there take risks, go test the waters, literally test the waters.

00:35:57:10 - 00:36:00:12
Speaker 1
Right. And that's good. I get no.

00:36:00:19 - 00:36:01:06
Speaker 3
Use that.

00:36:04:16 - 00:36:32:14
Speaker 2
I to fly. Forget this point. Forget this. I will say, being a freshman being a freshman on the rowing team as the oldest person on the rowing team has been really hard. And I say it all the time to the girls I'm like and they they love to listen to my experiences with hockey and whatever, but I always make sure to like highlight I have no idea what I'm doing.

00:36:33:15 - 00:36:55:10
Speaker 2
Like I may have one of the faster times, but I have no idea what I'm doing. Can you help me with this? You know, like, yes, I may be a leader. I am not a captain of the team, but the coach speaks to me and refers to me as the captain of the team. But like I'm not and she just refers to me as a leader, but I know nothing about the sport.

00:36:56:12 - 00:37:06:08
Speaker 2
So I just think, you know, as a freshman you might as a freshman in life, you might have strengths in one area, but weaknesses in the other and like let those left.

00:37:07:05 - 00:37:24:12
Speaker 3
Okay. I want to I want to listen maybe in a preview for Mark, I wanted to ask this earlier. So successful people have failed more than they've succeeded. We talk about this a lot. So and this is great. You know, you've done amazing things. But for our listeners just saying, well, that can't be me. It just looks all good.

00:37:24:12 - 00:37:33:12
Speaker 3
I'm not going to lie to you. Everything looks great. But can you share a little bit of the failures that helped you get to the success I think there has to be a lot and some for sure.

00:37:33:24 - 00:37:56:19
Speaker 2
No, I think one funny, I don't know, it's not even funny, but I've never been the star of a team. I've never been the goal scorer. I've never been, I've never been. I really have it. And like, you know, Mess can attest to that. I've never I'm not that person that is always is on the front of the poster.

00:37:57:06 - 00:38:22:13
Speaker 2
And I'll although I've struggled with that at times because there's always been a goal scorer or someone like that, I've learned how to embrace that a little bit. But definitely hard sometimes other setbacks like just being in the odd ball all the time. I mean, moving to Nelson, everybody knew everyone, you know, going, even going into Syracuse, everybody lives.

00:38:23:00 - 00:39:00:03
Speaker 2
People came in and comes from Ottawa from, you know, and I was just, you know, from up north and so also learning how to embrace being very different. And a lot of the time, you know, college is a is a tough a tough place yourself. And like I learned how to say no more than saying yes. And I think that was the hard one of the hardest things I've ever had to learn is being looked down at for not going somewhere or being looked down at for not wanting to hang out because I have to do homework yeah.

00:39:00:03 - 00:39:19:15
Speaker 2
I'm sure people talked about me all the time. Why would she never want to hang out with us or why would she? I, I cared at first. I really did. My freshman year, I wouldn't say no. And then I finally learned that, like, if I want to, if I want to achieve those goals, it's in my core values to like stay home and do that work.

00:39:21:12 - 00:39:46:10
Speaker 2
So I think more than anything, a lot of the time, the struggles and the hard things that I've been through have been very to myself or under the rug. And if if I I have to face that because I know that myself, but it's not very obvious all the time. It's not like, yeah, I had knee surgery. That one was very obvious.

00:39:46:10 - 00:39:58:00
Speaker 2
And that's an average thing that happens to athletes. But like, I didn't have any big, huge, crazy things. It was a lot of just the little things that you kind of learn how to bear with.

00:39:58:06 - 00:40:01:07
Speaker 1
And sometimes those are the biggest obstacles, right? Like is, is.

00:40:01:17 - 00:40:09:21
Speaker 3
A thousand cuts, man. Sorry I cut in there, but you're going to judge death by a thousand cuts. And I know that sounds so bad right now, but anyways, you know what I'm saying.

00:40:10:06 - 00:40:29:12
Speaker 1
Yes, but and it's interesting that you say this because I've had I've had this conversation with Emma. I remember in Grade 11 and 12 like you were more accountable to yourself first, which is tough because you had standards that you want to uphold. It was more important for you to be the best version of yourself than being cool, being better.

00:40:29:14 - 00:40:54:19
Speaker 1
Q That was more important than being cool. And what I will say is, although I know you were a defenseman, you weren't the goal scorer, but as a coach who's coached you, if I were to fabricate a team out of the atmosphere to say this is like a Madden game and you get to draft your own team, I'd pick six of you because you win with six of you, and then I might have a goal score because we do have to score goals at some point, but I'd have six of you.

00:40:54:19 - 00:41:20:07
Speaker 1
And the type of people that you are, you're, you know, what I'd call and Jill and I were both the same type of athletes, the dirty shirts, you're not getting all the accolades, but you're doing a lot of the work in the background and you're holding your self accountable. Service over status is what we see, right? You're you're there to serve yourself, you serve others, and you put yourself second, but you put a lot of pressure on yourself doing that and I'm sure being a female athlete for like you, I mean, you're a tall person.

00:41:20:07 - 00:41:36:15
Speaker 1
You stand out in a crowd and people you go into some places and people are like, never seen anybody like you before. Your energy, your presence, like that's what it is, right? So they might be intimidated by you until they get to know you. And this is where it seems like you've grown to be okay with that? Right.

00:41:37:07 - 00:42:00:21
Speaker 2
And I think one of the scariest things is that day when I'm not feeling myself you know, when every single person and I won't lie doesn't happen at all because it just does it. But, you know, that day when and I go to practice and know not that I'm not feeling practice, but I have a lot of other things on my mind.

00:42:01:20 - 00:42:27:09
Speaker 2
Everyone knows it's the very first I will like every person will come ask you what's wrong, you know, whereas the quiet person in the corner might, you know, someone might never ask them what's wrong. Every single it's happened a total of like four times. I remember vividly I what's wrong and there's nothing wrong. I'm just you know, I'm thinking about something else or I'm not quite myself today.

00:42:27:09 - 00:42:31:22
Speaker 2
And that's, that's a big obstacle to get over to. These are the.

00:42:31:22 - 00:42:53:00
Speaker 1
Little things that we find are important to talk about with people because they sometimes they internalize it too much and it weighs them down. And it could take away what I call peak performance. And it's not necessarily athletic performance, but just whether it's when you're down in school, we tend to think about big issues, but athletes put a lot of strain on themselves.

00:42:53:01 - 00:42:57:15
Speaker 1
And I think the fact that you understand that is really, really cool.

00:42:58:05 - 00:43:16:20
Speaker 3
I like the fact to earlier just love pump in your tires here. I like the fact earlier. Two people need to hear it, though. It's not easy. Example not being the goal scorer and you mentioned that earlier, like your ego. You didn't say it. I'm saying this for myself, for yourself, your ego kind of takes it like I'm not the first.

00:43:16:24 - 00:43:29:07
Speaker 3
You know, I'm on the first one on Twitter and the team took pictures and they have Billy, Tommy, Susie, whatever it is. And I'm not even there. And I'm grinding it out and I'm I practice all the time. My first one and last one out. But I didn't score the game winning goal, but I'm the one who set up the play ball well.

00:43:29:07 - 00:43:48:14
Speaker 3
And he just you just kind of fall to the wayside often. Let's just say. And it hurts, I'm assuming, like. Right, it hurts. But you still get up the next day and you get at it because you didn't do it for for a Twitter or an Instagram or a Facebook post or wherever the case may be. So that's what kind of keeps us going every day, I guess.

00:43:48:14 - 00:43:55:19
Speaker 3
But I'm glad you mentioned that because there's a lot more of those people in life than there are the goal scores. My opinion.

00:43:56:01 - 00:44:03:10
Speaker 2
I think one of the hardest things is just figuring that out. Oh, yeah. I think, you know, I think.

00:44:03:10 - 00:44:09:21
Speaker 3
Without taking other people down, yeah, it's not their fault. They score goals. Congratulations. Doesn't have to take you down from it.

00:44:10:05 - 00:44:30:03
Speaker 2
Yeah. I'll never forget actually. And this is totally going away from hockey, but when I got I got a silver medal let off the in the 800 and the girl who won was like absolutely amazing went on to do like crazy amazing things. And right after the race like I went straight up to her and I'm like, shake your hand.

00:44:30:03 - 00:44:50:21
Speaker 2
I'm in grade nine. So everyone's like, most girls are like, Kimberly. She beat me. And I'm like, What? I'm trying. And I'm like, wow. Like, that was such a great race. And she kind of looked at me shocked like, normally other girls don't come up to me and, like, really care to say great race. And I spoke with, like, her name is Emily.

00:44:50:21 - 00:45:08:18
Speaker 2
I spoke with her for a while after. And those are one of those moments where I'm like, I'm not. I wasn't number one. Okay. I was number two. But like, that was an experience to learn from. I have a lot to learn from her. So just a little, you know, there's always those learning.

00:45:08:24 - 00:45:28:17
Speaker 1
If for our listeners that aren't track and field people, the 800 you're talking about like I just ran 800 won a silver medal. The 800, in my opinion, nobody volunteers to be the 800 I've never coached a track team or somebody comes up to me and says, Hey, mess, put me in the 800. I even made my own kid run the 800 page.

00:45:29:01 - 00:45:47:03
Speaker 1
If you ask Paige, she was like Paige. She asked me and I tried to get Lauren around the 800. She's like, No way. But yeah, just, just an off the silver medal in the air. That's hurt for American listeners. That's a state championship. So that's, that's pretty darn good. And one of the toughest races in the world. So good for you.

00:45:47:10 - 00:45:52:01
Speaker 1
And then she was still cheery enough to go talk to the winner afterwards. I says, this speaks a lot.

00:45:52:23 - 00:46:07:23
Speaker 2
But I can't lie like I was. I will say I was cheering and happy for her. And then I would like go over and see my parents and not want to talk to them because I don't want to hear great job with the silver medal because I wanted the gold. Like, you know, it goes it does go both ways.

00:46:07:23 - 00:46:27:15
Speaker 2
I was very happy. But I also am hard enough on myself. And I mean, I don't think that's always a bad thing. I think I actually struggle. That's a hard thing for I mean, coaches and players is when to, you know, when to celebrate a loss and when to dwell on the loss. I think I think there's power in both.

00:46:27:15 - 00:46:30:13
Speaker 2
It's just really finding a balance between the two.

00:46:30:24 - 00:46:45:01
Speaker 3
I'm really I'm getting deep here. I mean, I think the 800 summarizes you like I'm thinking about what you guys are talking about the 800 because 100 is just like get it over with and everyone gets credit for. And that's the special thing at the Olympics and the 800 teams that I don't know, man, you're the track people.

00:46:45:18 - 00:46:52:17
Speaker 3
It sucks, but you're in it for the long haul, you know? I mean, you're in for the diamond that describes you. You're in 800 period.

00:46:52:17 - 00:47:01:07
Speaker 2
Okay, we go add one more layer. Have you guys ever been on a work like on a rowing machine? Oh, yeah, yeah. Have you ever done it to the. Oh yeah.

00:47:01:20 - 00:47:02:12
Speaker 3
Is that.

00:47:02:12 - 00:47:04:08
Speaker 1
It's the fitness test that I do us.

00:47:04:08 - 00:47:05:06
Speaker 3
Kids, we're rowers.

00:47:07:04 - 00:47:07:11
Speaker 2
Right?

00:47:07:22 - 00:47:11:18
Speaker 1
We were talking about that. This where we talked about that this weekend. We're talking about rowing.

00:47:11:18 - 00:47:22:11
Speaker 3
And I remember like like if you come to your, like, chest and roll up or do you cover your chest you come down by your belt. I'm trying to figure this stuff out myself. I don't know what I'm doing. My back hurts, my triceps hurt.

00:47:22:23 - 00:47:26:07
Speaker 2
I could try to send a tutorial because I'm still working on it myself. Okay.

00:47:26:10 - 00:47:27:02
Speaker 3
Okay. Okay.

00:47:27:14 - 00:47:31:08
Speaker 1
Well, so what's your to okay. Do I even want to know what your took time is?

00:47:31:08 - 00:47:36:21
Speaker 2
Kirsten Well, do you want to know what's funny? I still haven't done one of those.

00:47:36:21 - 00:47:43:07
Speaker 3
This we're average Joe is grinding it out in our basements and our rowers in North Carolina, and I haven't been one out yet.

00:47:43:19 - 00:48:01:24
Speaker 2
Know, I had, I had a lawn, but I had a lower back injury like two weeks ago and we did, they did their first two days and I didn't do it just for, just to be safe. But we're doing like super hard training pieces to get that time down, obviously. But I did a, we did six KS in the fall.

00:48:01:24 - 00:48:11:24
Speaker 2
So the fall is like the longer the longer races and the spring is the short sprints. And that was one of the most painful things I've ever done. Oh.

00:48:13:05 - 00:48:16:23
Speaker 3
I just I'm just laughing so much. You're talking.

00:48:18:00 - 00:48:19:07
Speaker 2
So I'm a.

00:48:19:07 - 00:48:25:04
Speaker 3
Lot lower back pain mess that I have that and it's called from being old, you know, just these, like injuries. We have that stuff.

00:48:25:17 - 00:48:26:22
Speaker 1
Day is going to recover.

00:48:28:13 - 00:48:31:19
Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. I was going to say my chiropractor and I'm better now.

00:48:31:19 - 00:48:45:07
Speaker 1
But so I got to tell you, and this is a shout out to your dad and I hope he listens to this show. Actually, no, it's not a shout out. Actually, I was kind of embarrassed. So I'm working out a lot and I guess I'm a trainer strength coach. I do a lot of training and I'm posting videos.

00:48:45:07 - 00:49:01:21
Speaker 1
And I think it was a couple of years ago and I posted a video and I think I was squatting like two 25 or something. I forget what I was. And then Corey said, Mochizuki, you're working out with your dad. And he's like Rapping like three 50 like nothing. And I was like, Well, I deleted my post.

00:49:03:00 - 00:49:03:05
Speaker 2
I was.

00:49:03:05 - 00:49:09:03
Speaker 1
Like, I didn't say anything. I held that inside. I was like, That jerk so dad.

00:49:09:17 - 00:49:20:21
Speaker 2
Freedom. Yeah. One of my biggest bro models, but he does like, he'll work out really hard for a little while and then kind of, you know, eat a lot of gyms and then workout.

00:49:22:10 - 00:49:23:22
Speaker 1
Sounds like a typical middle aged.

00:49:23:22 - 00:49:29:17
Speaker 2
Man, you know, but it always it always turns out that he's in his peak shape when I get home.

00:49:29:19 - 00:49:30:10
Speaker 1
Oh, I bet.

00:49:30:19 - 00:49:48:02
Speaker 2
Just so we can challenge each other and work out together and like, I don't think there's anything that brings them more joy than, like, got us going to the gym together. It's the end until you overcome that. He made this whole home gym, and now we just go to the basement and workout. It's amazing.

00:49:48:03 - 00:49:58:09
Speaker 1
Of course, you know, I think they must be just beside themselves. Like, you guys have had a lot. I know it's been a great journey. And for them, like, did they get a have they been down the Chapel Hill to see it all?

00:49:58:23 - 00:50:19:14
Speaker 2
They they have came once. They haven't. They actually they did see me one time, and that was the one time that the waves were white capping and it was pouring rain. And they were they're watching, but they're coming down for spring break in two weeks or whatever it is. Yeah, two weeks. And I'll have to practice today day so they'll come watch.

00:50:20:10 - 00:50:23:08
Speaker 2
So cool and get to see everything here. So they're pretty excited.

00:50:23:21 - 00:50:24:19
Speaker 3
The only siblings.

00:50:25:11 - 00:50:53:00
Speaker 2
I do, I have a sister. My sister is three years older than me. She has one son. They're her and her husband. They're they're her little families just live in their dream. And New Liscard, she played I mean, she played Mitch her husband was a college played college hockey at Kansas. So we're very relatable in that way. And then my sister played all the all the sports, ran track and did all that stuff, too.

00:50:53:01 - 00:50:54:08
Speaker 2
So very cool.

00:50:54:22 - 00:51:08:12
Speaker 1
Very cool. So what's next? Like I to know. Like what? Like, just don't stop. This is a good story. Like, I don't want this to end. What's next? Athletically and academically, or out of year. And your master's degree, she's going.

00:51:08:13 - 00:51:10:07
Speaker 3
After your job at Nelson's already said it.

00:51:10:07 - 00:51:27:04
Speaker 1
Earlier, dude. She's going to do way better things than that. I'd love her. I'd love to have her. I would love to have her. I'd turn over the reins because she's she's the type of leaders we need in the world, man. I'm telling you, this is what we need in the we need more people like you doing the leadership roles.

00:51:27:06 - 00:51:27:14
Speaker 1
Right.

00:51:27:21 - 00:51:50:05
Speaker 2
Well, thank you. That's the hope. One day, I hope academically I mean, about this amazing master's program. So the way it works is a two year program. The second year we get to do a full time internship. So I'll be working 100% in the UNCF department, which is like one of the most powerful athletic departments in power. Five like me is like.

00:51:50:18 - 00:52:13:18
Speaker 2
So I'll be working with the athletic director here. I'm in the administration role, so I'll be learning about all those things, which is super exciting. So I would love I mean, long term, definitely to be an athletic director have that student athlete type centered impact would be amazing. Obviously, it takes a while to get there, which something I have to digest.

00:52:13:18 - 00:52:15:11
Speaker 2
I need to figure out, you know?

00:52:15:16 - 00:52:25:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. How is like how does somebody like obviously for me, like as an athletic director, just like your teacher, you get the headship, but like how does that happen in the NCAA? I've always wondered that.

00:52:25:19 - 00:53:01:24
Speaker 2
Yeah. So from what I'm understanding and learning, there's a million different paths if there's no carved out way, which kind of makes it harder because it makes me think I can create my own. So anyway, you can get it. You need, you need it you need a lot of experience, but becoming an administrator of some kind. So like, I'm super interested in the sport administrator role, which means, like, I would oversee four or five different teams, so I'd be the coach's main contact, whatever they need in terms of facilities, travel, like all that stuff.

00:53:03:00 - 00:53:29:07
Speaker 2
That's kind of how you get started. And then from there you get like associate associate and like assistant, all that stuff. But like my athletic director at Syracuse, John Waldeck, who was again one of my greatest mentors, he he was like a production director at ESPN before he came to Syracuse. And Bubba Cunningham, who's the athletic director unci was the athletic director at Notre Dame before.

00:53:29:11 - 00:53:32:13
Speaker 2
So like you can come, you can really come from anywhere.

00:53:32:13 - 00:53:37:17
Speaker 1
It just got to kind of opens up and then the right person falls into the job. Right to.

00:53:37:22 - 00:53:44:21
Speaker 3
Do. Certain schools have female athletic directors and male at like any schools in that direction or they all have that. How does that work?

00:53:45:09 - 00:54:01:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. So like the head, the head honcho, the athletic director themselves can be a female or a male and you're starting to see a lot more females not role. Like even close by here at Duke, there's a Nina Kings of female. What's Duke?

00:54:01:18 - 00:54:02:24
Speaker 3
No, no, I'm just get them. Just kidding.

00:54:03:02 - 00:54:04:07
Speaker 2
That's the that's all right.

00:54:04:15 - 00:54:05:11
Speaker 3
That's like swearing.

00:54:05:11 - 00:54:06:20
Speaker 2
Question. Good question.

00:54:06:20 - 00:54:08:04
Speaker 1
Or do I have to edit that out?

00:54:08:04 - 00:54:38:07
Speaker 2
That word you know, it's a it's a respectful rival. Okay. Well, kind of. But yes, a lot of female, they're certain to be more female soldiers. But there's a role within the administration of every school. It's called a senior women's administrator and SWG and that's what I eventually like to be before I'm an athletic director. It pretty much was like oversees most of the Olympic sports and SWG.

00:54:38:07 - 00:55:01:12
Speaker 2
They make it seem like you only oversee female sports. But no, you oversee all the Olympic sports, but you're the most senior female. I'm actually doing my thesis on this topic because I think I could go on about it forever. But that is a role. That is a title. They just say, you're the senior women's administrator. Go. Yeah, that that person still has a whole other job.

00:55:01:12 - 00:55:12:11
Speaker 2
They're still the CFO or the CEO or they still have a whole other job, whereas that could be their whole job is overseeing those sports. They shouldn't need to do the other million things.

00:55:12:11 - 00:55:23:12
Speaker 3
But do you think I mean, I don't know if I should even ask this. I will ask it. Do you think female athletics should have a female athletic male male or who cares? What's your thoughts?

00:55:24:06 - 00:55:45:12
Speaker 2
I oh, that's hard because I'm trying to go through what I think the ideal would be. I don't think it should be by gender, but I definitely think the top needs both. I don't think any I don't think any male or female can have the perspective of each other's sports at the moment. I just don't think that's possible.

00:55:46:11 - 00:56:04:02
Speaker 2
But I also think if you have a collaborative athletic department, you should you should have a good amount of female voices and male voices and diverse different cultures and community like that should be something that should be easy. Instead of having this rule that has to be a female or has to be a male.

00:56:04:10 - 00:56:15:03
Speaker 1
Yeah. Makes that's that's probably the right feel right and if you if and that'd be the I'm sure the top athletic departments is by committee leadership by committee right now.

00:56:15:16 - 00:56:45:22
Speaker 2
And it's the same thing like again, this is what I'm learning about. So I could go on tangent about it, but it's the same thing with like a DEA counselor, like a diversity inclusion person. The same thing has the way they pretty much just said that you need to place this name on someone instead of actually hiring someone and giving them the resources and the actual role to put put different programs into place to help the I know you're just placing a name on their title.

00:56:46:03 - 00:56:47:19
Speaker 1
Performative activism.

00:56:50:00 - 00:56:50:07
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:56:50:14 - 00:56:57:14
Speaker 1
It's, it's unfortunate and it's funny because and in seeing I've seen some inequities this year in some schools.

00:56:58:00 - 00:57:00:01
Speaker 3
I was just about to go there. Go ahead.

00:57:00:09 - 00:57:01:17
Speaker 2
Or you. Oh yeah.

00:57:02:05 - 00:57:15:14
Speaker 1
Well, I'll just say, like, I know that some NCAA schools, like the men's team have a stick room. The women's team doesn't have a stick room. How does that happen? Right. Like, how is that fair? Like, it doesn't make sense. Or they have a goalie coach and they don't have a goalie coach. I don't get that. Why is that fair?

00:57:15:22 - 00:57:19:04
Speaker 1
And like Title nine. So have you done a lot of work with Title nine stuff?

00:57:19:22 - 00:57:46:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, so definitely no expert. But from what we've learned, it's all about opportunity. So the females have this year opportunity as the men and it's kind of evens out. But I mean, you can't play basketball or football in the in those realms. In Division One at all. They're just at their own. But technically they have the same scholarship wise.

00:57:46:07 - 00:57:56:21
Speaker 2
They have the same opportunity as the females on the rowing team because they have an equal amount of doesn't have to be an equal amount of money and has to be opportunity. So gotcha. Whatever that means.

00:57:56:24 - 00:58:02:11
Speaker 1
It's left to open to interpretation and I would imagine by various parties such as that.

00:58:02:21 - 00:58:04:11
Speaker 2
Scary sometimes, but yes.

00:58:04:19 - 00:58:06:03
Speaker 1
Gee, you look like you were going to jump in.

00:58:06:15 - 00:58:23:06
Speaker 3
Yeah. No, I just I'm just happy for female athletes right now or because I'm just saying what the future look like with Christine doing the things she's doing. I don't I have no daughters, anything like that in there. But I can just see you being impactful. And I've met you for maybe an hour now. I can just see you being impactful.

00:58:23:06 - 00:58:34:12
Speaker 3
And I'm kind of and that's what I'd love to see my face when she was talking at this last part, because it just hit me I was like, Man, she's going to do something that's kind of maybe change things in a positive way. So that's what that face was.

00:58:34:21 - 00:58:50:06
Speaker 2
Well, thanks. I mean, like, why can't I struggle between, like, thinking that there should be an NCAA for women and for men? Because I don't think there always needs to be a divide, but sometimes there does. I don't know.

00:58:51:00 - 00:58:52:23
Speaker 3
And that's okay. And that's okay.

00:58:53:04 - 00:58:56:00
Speaker 1
Yeah. And the answer is out there somewhere.

00:58:56:00 - 00:58:57:10
Speaker 2
Not knowing, though. Yeah.

00:58:58:10 - 00:59:16:11
Speaker 3
Like Mark and I today watched women's professional hockey finals. But, you know, again, I watched I didn't tell you that, Mark, but I'm, you know, watching and it's just an average rink, to be honest with you. Why isn't it in a bigger rink? Why isn't there more people? Why isn't it? I don't know. I just find that a little unfortunate, to be honest with you.

00:59:16:13 - 00:59:27:09
Speaker 1
I decided it was really like it was like it looked like watching a live stream on TV. And it was just the cameras are like it wasn't really set up to be. They should have had that in an NHL rink.

00:59:27:16 - 00:59:47:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, right. And the saddest thing is so many things come down to money. But I mean, sometimes you got to get creative with how you make how you make it. Yeah. Well, you may need different sponsors that you don't expect from. For a male team, you might need to dig into those individual I don't know.

00:59:48:00 - 01:00:08:05
Speaker 3
So, you know, you guys are open in the can. I didn't do it. So we talk about like the went the Olympics. It was great for female hockey was amazing for four female hockey so kind of maybe jump on that train, if that makes any sense. I deal with it in baseball where people used to say in the community used to say, well, when the Blue Jays are doing well, our enrollment is good at in minor sports.

01:00:08:15 - 01:00:28:17
Speaker 3
You know, but my rebuttal to that is why are we waiting for something to be successful? For us, it's our jobs we're the ones you know, we're the ones in the trenches every single day. We're not a major league team. We're not the Olympics every four years. We're literally in this every single minute of every single day. It's our responsibility to make this a success every time.

01:00:28:24 - 01:00:42:18
Speaker 3
So either when a girl laces up, skate and goes on the ice or for, you know, for my case, girl, guy, whatever it is coming out on the baseball field, make them feel welcome. Make it the funnest day they've ever had in their lives. And then that's on us. That's on the Blue Jays, that's on in the women's Olympic team.

01:00:42:18 - 01:00:47:24
Speaker 3
That's on us. Like literally every coach out there right now. I got fired up there. I'm too good for now.

01:00:47:24 - 01:00:51:05
Speaker 1
I love it when you get fired up about girls sports. It's great.

01:00:51:17 - 01:01:23:10
Speaker 2
I also think I think if you could give every person that walks through your door, whether it's your office or your your locker room, if you can give them an experience that they can step out with something new and something better than how they came in. I think you've achieved your role. I mean, it doesn't even have to be if you've learned something, if they've learned something from a teammate or a coach or a parent tying skates beside you, like if you've learned something, you could step out of that room better than when you came in.

01:01:23:10 - 01:01:26:24
Speaker 2
And I feel like you can do that every day. Wouldn't that be amazing?

01:01:27:02 - 01:01:42:20
Speaker 1
One of our mottos, better today than yesterday, better tomorrow than today. That's the one of the things we say it a lot of people that we work with, it's just you just try and you know, it's funny because we talk about like people like these messages doing a podcast. Like I saw they guy yelling at a wrestling. Yeah.

01:01:42:23 - 01:02:01:20
Speaker 1
Like that was me 2.01.03.0 20.0. You learn and you get these experiences as you go. When you said like, hey, I like how this coach operates they're a good human being. I want to be more like that. You youthful from different experiences that you have to make you better in the right way, right?

01:02:02:10 - 01:02:30:20
Speaker 2
Yeah. And I think I mean, specifically to coaching, I've had amazing coaches like all across the board from my dad to yourself to like Stacey to Ryan, like Paul, all these people and like Aaron now totally changing sports. But every single one of those leaders have common denominators in wanting us to learn to learn new things and be better holistic people.

01:02:30:20 - 01:02:50:12
Speaker 2
And I think if I've learned anything in these last couple months from Aaron, it's like, yeah, you might not have the perfect technique in rowing, but like you're vital to this and like this other girl who's great and doesn't have the greatest attitude. Yes, she's vital, but you guys have to, you know, be the puzzle pieces to fit together.

01:02:50:18 - 01:02:56:00
Speaker 1
You don't have to be best friends, but you got to coexist and pull on the same on the same rope in the same direction.

01:02:56:10 - 01:02:58:01
Speaker 2
For the team. Yeah.

01:02:58:23 - 01:03:15:11
Speaker 1
And I like learning from other coaches. John-John, remember I was telling you the story today about how I got into coaching lacrosse. Like Lauren had transitioned from soccer to lacrosse because you wanted to try something different. And I was sitting there, I was like, Great, I'll go watch the cross. And she was in the tryouts and the coach came over is like, You're going to help me coach this team.

01:03:15:18 - 01:03:37:24
Speaker 1
I was like, I know nothing about lacrosse. And he says, I know nothing about coaching girls. So I was like, Oh, my God. Anyway, so it worked out so good that I enjoyed learning from this person who was a master at lacrosse and coaching the sport. And I loved his passion. He brought the passion to the game and the knowledge and everything like that.

01:03:37:24 - 01:03:53:16
Speaker 1
So, you know, it's one of those things if you're willing to learn and have that growth mindset, that elite mindset of of wanting to get better, it's going to help you in all phases of your life and you'll grow as a person for sure. I'm not sure I still know anything about lacrosse, but I had a great time doing it.

01:03:53:16 - 01:03:57:15
Speaker 1
But it's a lot of fun. Just about your comfort zone right now.

01:03:58:01 - 01:03:58:13
Speaker 2
Wow.

01:03:59:00 - 01:04:03:01
Speaker 3
I don't know if I don't know. I mixed emotions with your new year, new camera.

01:04:03:23 - 01:04:04:12
Speaker 1
You don't like it?

01:04:05:04 - 01:04:12:14
Speaker 3
I do. I don't know. But it's just I'm used to the other one. I got to get used to this new I know he had like he's got a new camera now. I'm sure he didn't talk about his laptop.

01:04:12:14 - 01:04:18:12
Speaker 1
Neither laptop was doomed. I had to get rid of it. So I said, what's the new setup? So this is the maiden voyage.

01:04:18:12 - 01:04:21:08
Speaker 3
So you're like HDMI, your, like, super crystal clear.

01:04:22:14 - 01:04:23:24
Speaker 1
That could be a bad thing. How's my skin?

01:04:23:24 - 01:04:26:14
Speaker 3
I know that's what I'm looking at right now. It's super reflective.

01:04:28:00 - 01:04:28:17
Speaker 1
Oh, boy.

01:04:28:24 - 01:04:31:08
Speaker 3
So sorry. I went on a tangent Chris. And my bad.

01:04:32:00 - 01:04:32:13
Speaker 2
Oh.

01:04:33:10 - 01:04:52:02
Speaker 1
So. Oh, man, again, that's so much. Three years old times to cover. So if you. Okay, now, Jones, you talked about like going back in the freshman part, like if you had to go back and do it again. I saw a similar question but different if you had to go back and give yourself advice in your freshman year, what would you say?

01:04:52:02 - 01:04:54:24
Speaker 1
What would you say to 18 year old Kristen.

01:04:59:20 - 01:05:07:04
Speaker 2
On I think I would say don't worry about it.

01:05:08:16 - 01:05:08:24
Speaker 1
Okay.

01:05:09:02 - 01:05:29:24
Speaker 2
I, and I know there's so many people out there that are the exact same as me that, you know, every test I'm going to worry about until I get the grade back for every play, I can't just get rid of it in my head. Like sometimes, you know, all the time you have to realize that there's a time to worry about it and there's a time not too.

01:05:29:24 - 01:05:35:16
Speaker 2
And I would say don't, don't worry about it. Yes. Nice, nice.

01:05:35:23 - 01:05:44:15
Speaker 3
Nice. I love it. My, my I know we're concluding here. My, my thing is like I can't believe you remember the four times you were feeling.

01:05:44:24 - 01:05:46:23
Speaker 2
Up to yourself. Who remembers?

01:05:47:04 - 01:05:49:11
Speaker 3
There was I remember there were four times.

01:05:49:22 - 01:05:50:17
Speaker 2
Like I.

01:05:50:17 - 01:05:52:00
Speaker 3
Probably have four times in a day.

01:05:52:08 - 01:06:10:02
Speaker 2
Well, really? And obviously there's been way more not with those, but those four times. Like there was a good solid amount of girls that came up to me and like, are you okay, Chris? You know, I'll never forget, like, the classic. And don't get me wrong, there's many more times where I'm not.

01:06:10:02 - 01:06:13:03
Speaker 3
Yeah, but still classic. I'm still going to use that story anyway.

01:06:13:19 - 01:06:14:03
Speaker 2
I love.

01:06:14:03 - 01:06:14:21
Speaker 1
It. But sometimes.

01:06:14:23 - 01:06:16:22
Speaker 3
Kristen Yeah, she's only been upset four times.

01:06:21:00 - 01:06:40:14
Speaker 1
That's so good. Okay, so Kristen night and the one of the things we do on all of our shows is we asked our guests if there's one thing because this is our homework and your mom will appreciate this as an educator. And you and I are both teachers, so we give our listeners homework for each episode. And our guests.

01:06:40:14 - 01:06:55:24
Speaker 1
We like to ask them like, what's the best piece of leadership advice you can think of or what's the best resource that you've had or what is something along the leadership that you would want to share? You feel as the must that you would want to share with our leaders to reflect on for this week.

01:06:57:00 - 01:07:01:24
Speaker 2
For I feel like this is the most the biggest question of them all.

01:07:04:23 - 01:07:30:01
Speaker 2
Find a mentor, find a mentor, and lean on them and meet with them. When you don't think you have to I think at Syracuse and even now I have mentor that I meet with as mentors that I meet with like, you know, once a month and there's so many times where I just want to text them and say, I have way too many things going on to meet next month.

01:07:31:00 - 01:07:47:14
Speaker 2
And those are the calls that you get the most out of that when you realize that you needed you needed to hear about us, you need to tell someone about a certain situation or, you know, you needed to be at that time. And so find a mentor someone that someone that knows you from the core but also doesn't know everything about you.

01:07:47:19 - 01:07:55:18
Speaker 2
You know, they can you can teach them things about yourself to find a mentor and lean on them and meet with them consistently. That would be my my homework.

01:07:56:24 - 01:08:11:18
Speaker 3
Great advice. Very good advice. Genius. Yeah, it just I'm looking forward to see like, I want to see what things look like for Chris and three years. Five years. I can I'm literally looking forward to seeing where this goes for you. And good luck.

01:08:11:18 - 01:08:20:21
Speaker 1
Can I ask Kristen before we sign off or can I ask rowing? We think potentially, are we putting up some national team numbers?

01:08:20:21 - 01:08:23:11
Speaker 2
Maybe with Summer Olympics?

01:08:23:15 - 01:08:24:08
Speaker 1
Maybe.

01:08:24:18 - 01:08:35:09
Speaker 2
I did get a cool call from from the development camp to that. I'm on their board. I'm on their little the reference sheet. So again, I'll be a little.

01:08:35:16 - 01:08:37:10
Speaker 1
If you went to the Olympics, I'd be like, yeah.

01:08:37:21 - 01:08:48:05
Speaker 2
That's for sure. No Shaq, no Shaq. About the Winter Olympics. I'll go in the summer. Oh, my gosh. Maybe it'll be in the summer again. You never know.

01:08:49:06 - 01:08:51:16
Speaker 3
Don't forget. Don't get too big for a car. About time for us.

01:08:51:21 - 01:08:57:17
Speaker 1
Yes. Because we have to have the post podcast as well. Like, the follow up is big for us, right?

01:08:57:18 - 01:09:00:17
Speaker 3
Well, we'll still be bald. We'll still be bald and lower back pain.

01:09:02:12 - 01:09:03:05
Speaker 2
They're still all.

01:09:03:05 - 01:09:05:04
Speaker 1
Bad. I might have better lighting by then.

01:09:06:02 - 01:09:35:00
Speaker 2
Because I will say one of the most powerful things in terms of resources, too, is like is listening to people that have different experiences than you like. Like, I'd love to listen to your guys's podcast because you're coming from total different experiences than I, you know, I came from and whatever I've been through and just totally different experiences, just listen to them because you definitely draw conclusions with everything, everything that out there.

01:09:35:06 - 01:09:43:16
Speaker 3
Dr. Hall has been really good from my lower back. Mark, what have you been using a?

01:09:43:16 - 01:09:45:03
Speaker 1
No more free ads? No more free.

01:09:45:03 - 01:09:52:04
Speaker 3
Yeah, I know. I thought of that. I was like, Should I use some mouse generic or I'm going to pump up Dr. Jones this I'm working out Kristen.

01:09:52:04 - 01:10:16:10
Speaker 1
We draw a lot from our our guests because this is one of the reasons we like it. Even though Gigi and I both have our own experiences in life and coaching and playing and teaching, we this is why we wanted guests on our show because we didn't want to just have this, you know, you look into it. It's like being inside of a well and you look up and you just see your little slice of the sky.

01:10:16:18 - 01:10:26:07
Speaker 1
We want to see the whole sky. And that's why we want people from all different areas. And you cover so many bases of that, and you're you're just an awesome person to talk to.

01:10:27:07 - 01:10:29:23
Speaker 2
Thank you so much. Well.

01:10:30:22 - 01:10:35:06
Speaker 1
Here we go. Oh, you know what? I don't know. This is another one. I don't want this to end.