Dartmouth College Women's Hockey Coach Liz Keady Norton - On Leadership, Fitness and Motherhood

Head Coach Liz Keady Norton of the Dartmouth College Women's Hockey Program (and recently named Assistant Coach for 2023 USA U18 Worlds) is a leader who has successfully woven  leadership, motherhood, and fitness into her Ivy League and ECAC coaching career. She takes us through her journey into taking over this historic program and provides insights into powerful leadership and coaching practices.

What we talk about in this episode:
-how to be a standout recruit
-what most coaches look for in potential student athletes and should look for to build a successful program
-how good fitness habits play a role in making yourself ready to play
-establishing a culture of success through communication and trust
-finding balance and staying grounded with family
-Process over outcome when building team dynamics for the long term
-Core leadership values rooted in growth and empowerment of the athlete
-Coaching should be regarded as the service industry
-The difference between being "interested" vs. "committed"
-How good humans make good teammates
-The importance of body language
-Getting the most out of your players by giving them a defined role to play

Check out the Institute of Performance and Fitness:
https://ipfitness.com
https://www.instagram.com/ipfnews/

We want to hear from you!
Where are you in your leadership journey? What's your WHY? How are you chasing your 1%?
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https://linktr.ee/BenchmarkedPodcast
Thanks for listening to our show. We would be grateful if you chose to like and subscribe!
KEEP CRUSHING IT!

Mizuno


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Transcript

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:33:24
Speaker 1
Hey team, welcome to Benchmarked the Leadership Coaching and Mental Performance Podcast with Coach Mess and Coach Larocque. Thanks for joining us. Our guest today is head coach of the Dartmouth College Women's Hockey Program, Liz Keady Norton, a graduate of Princeton. She is no stranger to women's hockey in the Northeast, particularly the ECAC. Having coached at Union College, Harvard and Boston University before making her way to Hanover to become the 11th Head coach in the history of the Big Green Hockey program.

00:00:34:17 - 00:00:50:17
Speaker 1
Coach Keady Norton not only wears a whistle, but I'm pretty sure she wears a cape as well. As she's the mother of two beautiful boys and proud wife of Walter Naughton Jr, who owns and operates the Institute of Performance and Fitness in North Redding, Massachusetts. Did I say Massachusetts right?

00:00:51:04 - 00:00:52:07
Speaker 2
You sure did. You nailed it.

00:00:53:06 - 00:01:03:05
Speaker 1
Coach, we're so excited that you took the time to chat with us today. I know you're super busy, but we've been excited and been waiting for the opportunity for you to have this chance to talk with you and have you on our show.

00:01:03:14 - 00:01:04:23
Speaker 2
Yeah, no, I'm fired up to be here.

00:01:05:10 - 00:01:10:13
Speaker 1
And you might be one of the only people that tells me that you listen to our show. So I'm. Thanks for listening to the show.

00:01:10:14 - 00:01:13:13
Speaker 2
Oh, I sure do. Yeah. Being the third listener.

00:01:14:08 - 00:01:15:02
Speaker 1
Yeah. Is that you?

00:01:15:02 - 00:01:17:09
Speaker 2
Back in? Back five stars?

00:01:17:21 - 00:01:21:09
Speaker 1
Yeah, that's the gym. That's literally the gym in the gym right now.

00:01:21:13 - 00:01:25:12
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like a mile from my house, so it's a little quieter here at night.

00:01:26:04 - 00:01:35:05
Speaker 1
It's very cool. Try not to drill. I know. So clean. They got the garage doors, too, that go to the outside, which is. Yeah, amazing. So speaking of.

00:01:35:07 - 00:01:37:19
Speaker 2
The indoor turf matches, outdoor turf. Yeah.

00:01:37:20 - 00:01:39:10
Speaker 1
Oh, okay. You're bragging.

00:01:40:08 - 00:01:41:13
Speaker 2
You're welcome. Any time.

00:01:42:15 - 00:01:47:14
Speaker 1
Hey, never mind. Next time we're coming down, I want a tour because it does look pretty. I want to workout is what I want to do, so.

00:01:47:19 - 00:01:48:16
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah, that too.

00:01:48:18 - 00:02:01:00
Speaker 1
It looks. It looks amazing when I follow you guys on on Instagram and all the workouts and the training just looks set. Just fantastic. So and everybody seems like they're having a great time, even though they're suffering sometimes, but.

00:02:01:08 - 00:02:02:20
Speaker 2
Yeah, they're bottom for sure.

00:02:04:05 - 00:02:17:23
Speaker 1
So speaking of fitness, I know it's been a huge part of your life, not just hockey, but were you into fitness before you were into hockey or was it kind of something that you used your fitness to accelerate your hockey?

00:02:19:12 - 00:02:39:14
Speaker 2
I think I think all of the above. Like, for starters, like I probably started really training like my sophomore year of high school and at the time, like I played for sports year round and probably was like way over schedule. But like, I think the difference between like Overscheduled for me and like what I see now is like I loved every minute of it.

00:02:40:09 - 00:03:04:14
Speaker 2
And then like at first exposure, like I love the gym, like there's so much I feel like so much that I learned in here. But like the confidence you gain, like you're always doing better at something. Like it's tangible. It's like for me, it was like like, it's so rewarding to see, like, your hard work pay off, like, not almost instantly, but like over time and, and also see like areas of improvement.

00:03:04:14 - 00:03:21:04
Speaker 2
And then, like, it certainly translated to all the sports I was doing at the time. And then like the, the big thing that probably, like, sealed the deal for me was like it was a game changer for me in terms of like college hockey. Like, I never would have been on a national team without like the strength and conditioning training I did.

00:03:22:02 - 00:03:30:09
Speaker 2
Like absolutely no way and it was a so for me, it opened up so many doors and like I loved every minute of it.

00:03:30:22 - 00:03:51:18
Speaker 1
Now, do you feel that there's a magical age? And we had a we've we've had a guest that we talked about who's big into the performance and age really to perform for you. And I know you got two young boys, Mac and Walter Junior. At what age would you say, hey, this is an appropriate time to explode and they're always in your gym?

00:03:51:18 - 00:04:00:17
Speaker 1
I see them running around your gym all the time. What's an appropriate age in your mind to start kids on that path of fitness and training?

00:04:02:02 - 00:04:24:13
Speaker 2
So I would like to think that leading an active lifestyle at any age is is appropriate. And then like it's when does it become more structured? And I would say like two, two things like here at the gym in general, we say like at 12 years old, like that's what that's when the youngest kids come. Like, we've made exceptions for like a few 11 year olds that are like more mature and like it's not about age as a number.

00:04:24:13 - 00:04:50:05
Speaker 2
It's like, can they listen? Are they safe? Can they pay attention? Because there's a million ways to edit the workout so that like it's functional for them and like for the younger kids, I think the movement, the coordination, like that stuff is, is a huge, huge jump ahead if you can like get them ahead on that stuff and it's not like they have to be moving a ton of weight or like learning the functional patterns of it I think is, is good younger than probably people think.

00:04:50:05 - 00:05:00:12
Speaker 2
I think when people get in trouble, it's like if the kid doesn't like it, like it's probably no good and like if they're not ready to focus and, and listen and take coaching, you know.

00:05:01:12 - 00:05:10:06
Speaker 1
The unless you got something. No, go for it. OK, with that stuff. What I find too is like their chronological form, I think. Let me.

00:05:10:08 - 00:05:11:02
Speaker 2
Chronological.

00:05:11:09 - 00:05:27:16
Speaker 1
Thank you age. And then there's your physical. Right. Yeah. So that's the total part we talked about like a specific age. But, you know, we've seen that on sports team especially 12 to 14 year olds the 14 year old looks like he's 20 and then you have a 14 year old that's like he's ten. Right? So it's just that, that spectrum stuff.

00:05:27:20 - 00:05:34:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. Or like coming out of a growth spurt and like longer limbed like there is different challenges for different kids at different ages.

00:05:35:04 - 00:05:46:14
Speaker 1
We always found to like the argument I have with parents all the time, like, oh, it's too early for my kid. Well, you know, going to the, you know, doing gymnastics and doing those things, it's kind of like strength training, right? Like it's.

00:05:46:16 - 00:05:47:11
Speaker 2
That's awesome.

00:05:47:20 - 00:06:04:17
Speaker 1
Yes. Foundational movements. And then, you know, you think about if you're playing a sport like soccer or hockey, you're training your legs already and you're, you know, why not kind of incorporate that type of idea that people automatically think that they're going to be doing like £300 Daedalus and back squats and overhead.

00:06:04:22 - 00:06:05:02
Speaker 2
Sure.

00:06:05:03 - 00:06:14:22
Speaker 1
And stuff. But that's not necessarily what fitness and training is at an early age. Like you say, you kind of introduce them and roll them into the movement patterns and support limbs and joints, right?

00:06:15:06 - 00:06:16:05
Speaker 2
Yeah, absolutely.

00:06:16:11 - 00:06:36:21
Speaker 1
Very cool. And so the tough part in this is, as I was thinking about like you know, things where want to talk about and I know fitness is important to you as a as a just as a normal thing of everyday life. But it's a critical for hockey players when you're out recruiting again, how do you tell the kids can handle your demands of fitness that you would impose on them?

00:06:38:23 - 00:06:59:07
Speaker 2
I actually think a lot of that, like you can't tell when you watch them. I think you have to like talk to them and talk to the people around them because I think one of the biggest things is their habits and like and how committed they are to it. So like everybody I talk to, like they see me, they know I work out, they know I care about and they're like, I love the gym.

00:06:59:23 - 00:07:18:11
Speaker 2
And I look at them and I'm like, You do I know it? Yeah. But like, like, are they committed to it? And I say, like, the people who are interested, like, they're not all in like they're, they're in it when it's convenient. They're in it when it's a little bit easier. But like, the committed kids are like they're doing the work all the time.

00:07:18:11 - 00:07:33:13
Speaker 2
They're doing the work when no one's looking. And I think when you see their habits. So like, like, I love getting there a little bit early and seeing, like, do the kids warm up and like, what does that look like? And like sometimes you're gathering information and it looks like great warm up, like, do they cool down? Things like that.

00:07:34:14 - 00:07:50:13
Speaker 2
There's obviously like a there's also a piece of like what they've been exposed to. So like some people have a younger training age, like they have like all this talent and they haven't really they haven't really been in a weight room. And that might be lack of resources. It might be like where they live, different things like that.

00:07:50:13 - 00:08:07:12
Speaker 2
And then you have to evaluate like if like do they have the qualities like are they committed to other things they do because like I don't I don't think commitment is something that like you turn on and off like a light switch. Like you're I think committed people. Like when they're doing something, they do it and they do it well and they they're the best version of themselves.

00:08:07:12 - 00:08:10:22
Speaker 2
But like so to me, like, a lot of it is personality, too.

00:08:11:23 - 00:08:18:13
Speaker 1
Oh, my God. And it's just like sums up so much of what we talk about on the on a regular basis. It is.

00:08:18:15 - 00:08:39:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, I mean, it like it it's, it's probably judgy, judge. You have me to some extent, but like, I think and I like I know you hate the word elite, like, so like there are there are some like there are a bunch of high level women's ice hockey players now. Right. But like, I don't think there are as many that are willing to do the work and be an excellent practice player and like do all little things.

00:08:39:05 - 00:09:10:08
Speaker 2
And to me, like when you see a really fit kid, like it doesn't happen overnight, like they've consistently done something like they've demonstrated to me like that. They have the discipline, they have the mindset like that. They can show up every day and put the work in and like so to me, like, I love tough kids, like gritty like I call them dirt dogs, but like, like I would take a whole team of dirt dogs any day because like, you know what you're going to get from them as opposed to like she's got those silky mitts, but like, like, will she get the puck out of the corner of her, you know?

00:09:11:10 - 00:09:29:23
Speaker 1
And they will. They'll say some of the words, you can't say that we can say, but some of the players, I'll just go out, I'll say teams that I'm coaching, you look great in the uniform and you say all the right things. But it's not necessarily you're you don't really portray that necessarily and you're not putting in the extra time, you know, anyways, I know where you call them.

00:09:29:23 - 00:09:46:04
Speaker 1
You call them 4:00 hitters. They look good and batting practice. But then when they actually have to like perform and do it on the ice or the field, they can't get it done, they look good and that stops there. And that's something that a lot of people need to I love Dirty Dirt Dogs. We call them.

00:09:46:04 - 00:09:46:24
Speaker 2
Dirty. Yeah.

00:09:47:12 - 00:10:04:16
Speaker 1
Dirty shirts. I love the Dirt Guys. That's a new and I'm picking I'm writing that one down. But yeah, I think because I think they're undervalued and those kids, you know, that there's an internal fire. I don't know if they're undervalued. They're undervalued by most, but obviously like a coach like yourself looking for those those diamonds and then you can mine it.

00:10:04:16 - 00:10:08:05
Speaker 1
You have something you can work with. You can have a foundation that you can work with, right? Yeah.

00:10:08:10 - 00:10:28:16
Speaker 2
Well, and like that, I think that part of it is like whether they're undervalued or not, like I think like once you like, you get lucky with one and you find them, I think like they they earn their roll. Like they're you just need them. Right. But I think it comes down to like the recruiting process and what that looks like and like so people have different timelines.

00:10:28:16 - 00:10:44:19
Speaker 2
There's a million ways to do this and like to each their own but like I would never offer a kid on, on day one like that. I hadn't spent time with that. I hadn't met their family. Like, I just we I don't do it and I probably lose out on some people that way. But there's a million pieces to it.

00:10:44:19 - 00:11:04:16
Speaker 2
Like, I want people that are convicted that they want to be at Dartmouth, right? Like that's important to me. But I also want to know, like, who I'm bringing into my locker room, like, because I've seen you play, like, it's such a small piece of the puzzle. And for me, like, if you're not invested in the process enough to get to know us a little bit, then like it probably wouldn't work out anyways.

00:11:05:13 - 00:11:18:03
Speaker 2
And I think you don't get to know that part of a kid. So like, those kids might last longer and the recruiting process, whether they should or not, just because you got to ask questions and spend time with them to see what they do.

00:11:19:05 - 00:11:36:22
Speaker 1
Is want to jump out for that jump on the the recruiting piece of it. So I help with the placement of some of our guys for baseball, and we have some of the players. And you can tell them from a coach's perspective, but when I say with some of our players, like there's some players that you go to showcase and everybody can see that yet like, yep, yeah.

00:11:36:23 - 00:11:59:20
Speaker 1
Because they just, you know, on the run the 60 they look good in this, they look good in this. But the majority of our players and I, I feel like we talked about this is like your second, third, fourth liners. Like I have a lot of those where a coach needs to see them for one day, two days and after you see them for a week and it's like, man, I need ten of those because they don't, they're not going to show up and look amazing in front everybody.

00:11:59:22 - 00:12:11:11
Speaker 1
And then when you see them consistently like, man, we need ten of those, so on, they recruit like it sounds like that's where you're going with some of your recruiting. You like you you dig a little deeper than just what the, you know, judge a book by its cover, I guess.

00:12:11:17 - 00:12:28:11
Speaker 2
Well, for sure. And I feel like the like the other path that people take, too, is like with the school kids. Like they they assume that until they're like the skill doesn't automatically transition at the D one level. Like sometimes it takes a little time and it's going to show up a little bit later and like are they physically ready?

00:12:28:11 - 00:12:47:18
Speaker 2
There's a lot of transition that has nothing to do with hockey coming to university. Right. And so I think a lot of people take those kids and assume that they'll be fine on the third line. Until they can get like that top six role. But like, nothing about their game suggests that here like a third or fourth line kid, like there's nothing about that.

00:12:47:18 - 00:12:52:23
Speaker 2
And so then then I'm going somewhere. But how successful they are varies like quite a bit.

00:12:53:22 - 00:13:23:01
Speaker 1
I love that you said at one point and just kind of in our pre-show notes that you like overachievers, can can you elaborate on that? Because when you're recruiting, because to me, I love that and I think maybe I'm feeling and that you're deterred by the talented players who gets by on talent but isn't maximizing their ability. To me, I love that because I don't know G I don't want to speak for you, but it kind of feels like she's speaking to like given the opportunity to the kid that's dreaming it and trying to get there and doing all the right things.

00:13:23:01 - 00:13:23:10
Speaker 1
Right.

00:13:24:07 - 00:13:41:05
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, so like for me, like, I like I work so hard and I loved every minute of it and it's, it's how I was raised and it's just what we did. And to me, like that, like the value of that process and like, people believing me along the way like that, that's what led me into what I'm doing now and all of that.

00:13:41:05 - 00:14:00:21
Speaker 2
But for me, like, the most frustrating thing is like so many people, like talk about potential and like, like, I hate that because just, just show me like be about it like every day. Like, come in and show me. And like the kids who overachieve, like, I'm talking about like no one expected them. Like, they ended up as like last minute.

00:14:00:21 - 00:14:17:07
Speaker 2
Someone took them in like they showed up every day and then all of a sudden, like, they're producing for you and all of a sudden they're wearing a letter. And like the kids who get the most out of their ability because they left no stone unturned, like they did everything they could that was in their like their control of balls, right?

00:14:17:07 - 00:14:41:06
Speaker 2
Like their effort, their commitment, their discipline. Like they checked all those boxes, like for you and your program versus like the kids that even if they even if they outperform that kid, like if they could do more and like they're leaving some in the tank, like, it's just like I hide like I can't connect with those kids because like, I just don't understand it, like why you wouldn't want to be excellent and why you wouldn't want to be the best version of yourself.

00:14:41:06 - 00:14:47:13
Speaker 2
And like, take that to like we're in a team sport. So, like, this might be extreme, but like, I just think it's selfish.

00:14:49:20 - 00:14:57:12
Speaker 1
And I'm sure with experience you can, you can do these like yep. Sums up Sims of our podcast, 20th anniversary podcast.

00:14:58:07 - 00:14:58:12
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:14:58:15 - 00:15:14:11
Speaker 1
But you know, Gigi, when she was talking about some of this idea, I could see your wheels are turning because you're thinking of certain people that you've coached and the type of player that you like as well. Right? And I think it's the same like I like, I like those kids that are going to come every single day and you know what, you're going to get out of them.

00:15:14:11 - 00:15:32:20
Speaker 1
There's no surprises. And I and maybe that's the wrong way. You, you use the word habits before because, you know, as soon as that person shows up and we use our one and our coaching together, we talk about Superman and Clark Kent, like, are you you know, when you're not as soon as you walk in through those rink doors, you're Superman and everything's going to happen.

00:15:32:20 - 00:15:52:05
Speaker 1
Or in the gym, you're Superman. And when you're out in the on campus, you're, you're you're Clark Kent. You're doing your thing. You're being a good, you know, student, doing all those things. What are you laughing at? We had one kid on the weekend. I just didn't show up. Mark, would you say you guys were more like Oh, Lex Luther oh, yeah.

00:15:52:11 - 00:15:56:16
Speaker 1
I mean, any kids? No, Marvel didn't even know any of this stuff, but Mark and I knew what we were talking about.

00:15:56:16 - 00:15:58:14
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah, it's all it matters.

00:15:58:19 - 00:16:19:04
Speaker 1
I think there is one kid. One kid who is that is I picked it up, but so, you know, so how hard is it to recruit then? Like, is obviously one Corvettes. So how do you how do you do that now? You're probably two years and behind. No, you have some recruits in the hopper. There's a long pipeline, but how do you get to know people like that?

00:16:20:24 - 00:16:36:12
Speaker 2
So I would say like you got to take a like because there is a timeline still, right? Like you like we're not offering on day one, but like if we wait a year like this, like this isn't slow dating, like you're speed dating these people. So I like to think of it is like you got to take a 360 approach.

00:16:36:12 - 00:16:56:02
Speaker 2
Like so like you get to talk to their coach, you got to talk to the team that they left. You get to talk to like the Zamboni driver at the rink. Like those guys are brilliant. Like if you got they know any local kid, like are they good kid or not good family? Or not like the Zam drivers like he's probably he's probably made more decisions for me than I should tell.

00:16:56:02 - 00:17:21:01
Speaker 2
But like like the school counselor, like I love seeing them like go to a soccer game or lacrosse, whatever else they do, but like see how they interact with their teammates. Like I think getting them out of their atmosphere a little bit see them with their parents without their parents like there. I think there are a lot of ways to get to know them if you're going to put like the time and effort in and quite frankly, they're going to be in your locker room for four years.

00:17:21:01 - 00:17:45:00
Speaker 2
So like I have to be a selfishly like I have to be excited to work with them. Right? And like believe in them. And I would rat like so for me, like people look for like, oh, they want a hardworking kid and they want this and like I want that. But those are like my non-negotiable balls. Like, like he parks between the lines, like, so you get into my ballpark, like, now what else do you do that, like, separates yourself?

00:17:45:00 - 00:17:58:20
Speaker 2
Like, because to me, like, how hard work is in special, like, that's the expectation and so now, like, what else are you going to do? And, and oh, by the way, like, when you say you work hard, like, what is that? What does that mean? Like, because there's a wide range of, of definitions there, you know.

00:17:59:07 - 00:18:21:08
Speaker 1
And then how so is that something that you do like? And can you transition this into some leadership stuff? Because obviously you've been coaching now for a while. You've had the opportunity to coach at some big programs, and now you've landed this head coaching job at Dartmouth. And what what leadership value talk about your core values. You have the opportunity now new to program and you're going to shape and mold this.

00:18:21:18 - 00:18:26:01
Speaker 1
What's the short term dream or vision and then the long term for you that.

00:18:26:21 - 00:18:46:02
Speaker 2
Well, so I think like the the trickiest part is like is balancing both of that, right? Because like so for example, this year, like I inherited this team and that doesn't mean like I love them or I would ever wouldn't have recruited them. It's just that is what I have. And so a big part of this year is like you're spending a lot of time getting to know what you have.

00:18:46:02 - 00:19:04:23
Speaker 2
And for me, like just figuring out like like they're all they're they're they're meant to be there. Like, what did someone see in them that, like, why are they there and what's the best way to make them the most successful while also, like, looking in, how do you develop them and how do you complement what you have, like in the right way?

00:19:04:23 - 00:19:21:10
Speaker 2
And so like leadership wise, like, I always think of like coaching as like you're in a position of service, like you're there to you're there to serve the players. Like, that's why you have a job. You're there to like serve your staff. Like, what can you do to help them? What do they need from you to be successful?

00:19:21:15 - 00:19:39:23
Speaker 2
And like, how do you do that on a daily basis? So like, I think my job is like put the people in positions to succeed and like believe in them and support them until they show you that they can be successful. So like I think that's one piece of it. And like I always go back to my why and like why I coach.

00:19:39:23 - 00:19:59:04
Speaker 2
And for me, like hockey gave me so much like from education to travel, like playing on national team, like just doors that I never would have thought would have opened without it. And it's because I had excellent coaches who believed in me more than I believed in myself. And like I'm who I am as a as a person today because of that.

00:19:59:04 - 00:20:31:13
Speaker 2
And so like my hope is that if I can give 50% of that back, like I will feel like I've I've done something right. And so there's that piece of it. And like for the next generation of young women to like leave feeling like they had an excellent student athlete experience. But like that they they're confident and empowered and like they feel like they can leave there and change the world because like they had an experience on that team unlike any other so like those are things that I think about in like short term versus long term, what that looks like.

00:20:31:13 - 00:20:50:04
Speaker 2
Like it will change through like it changes through recruiting, but it also changes through like what you do every day. And so like I think like culture is a huge word now, but like there's also like I think culture is like the big picture. But I think it's like the most important thing is the environment you create every day.

00:20:50:04 - 00:20:53:24
Speaker 2
And like the environment is the short term and like culture is the long term. For me.

00:20:54:21 - 00:21:04:15
Speaker 1
Brilliant. So I was going to try to ask that same question, maybe frame it differently. So this was year one, correct? Yeah, but this.

00:21:04:15 - 00:21:07:03
Speaker 2
Year was year. Yeah. Like in two weeks I will have been there year.

00:21:09:02 - 00:21:28:20
Speaker 1
So you inherited the team. Yeah. So and this whoever is listening, it doesn't mean this is good or bad. Like you said earlier, the players you have or the players you have you got to see what your clientele example is. You're going to assume picking up some pieces. Would you pick up transfers like a note or is it just straight from freshman out of that?

00:21:29:00 - 00:21:30:12
Speaker 1
How would that look or how's that look?

00:21:31:02 - 00:21:52:11
Speaker 2
So transfers at Dartmouth are really, really difficult. Like, so we have one and she's like a unicorn around campus. Like, it's so hard and it's actually like it it would be cool if we could take transfers, but like more, more readily. But it's also that, like, people love Dartmouth and like literally someone has to leave and not like it for there to be a space.

00:21:52:11 - 00:22:09:01
Speaker 2
And that's like a space for regular students and all 35 sports. So it's like and that's pretty rare like we're the smallest ivy by about 25%. So and like people love it. So that's like, that wouldn't be where I would put my focus like I'd be thorough in that.

00:22:09:01 - 00:22:32:06
Speaker 1
But so most are coming in as freshmen. This is fresh air. The process is the next four years when you take over this team this year. So you're going to go into year two. You have, you know, some some sophomores going juniors, juniors and seniors. And I even hate the word coming, you know, leaving the program eventually. But once I even how to say this in a politically correct way.

00:22:32:06 - 00:22:47:02
Speaker 1
But if you had things the way you'd like them, let's say what's going to look like in two or three years? Like where do you like you learned some stuff this year? I'd see your clientele and just see we're in the conference previously. Did you get to see who else was in the conference now this was going to play out?

00:22:48:03 - 00:23:00:06
Speaker 2
I mean, I had I had an idea of where we sat in the league. Is that what you're asking? Yeah. Well, yeah, like, you know, it's not like when they have come. So you're asking like what it would look like a few years from now? Yeah.

00:23:00:06 - 00:23:11:09
Speaker 1
Like, where would you, where do you see this going? And what, what do you put you think you're going to put in place to, to get to where? Like, what's your stand? What's going to be your stamp on the program? Like, yeah. So that's, that's a once Kitty Norton team.

00:23:11:11 - 00:23:31:24
Speaker 2
One complicating factor is like, so we had COVID this year, right? So like, you have a lot of practices with like 13 players and no goalies or games with 15 skaters and things like that. And so I think like my, my hope is to like develop more peer to peer accountability and like the ability to have tough conversations.

00:23:32:22 - 00:23:58:05
Speaker 2
And so like I like that I'm approachable as a head coach and I'll always entertain like any, any conversation from, from anyone. But there's a lot of things that I think are like internal and should be should should be settled in the locker room. So like helping them have those conversations would be one piece of it in terms of like the on ice play like I want I want people to think that like that's the most relentless team.

00:23:58:05 - 00:24:27:05
Speaker 2
Like they hate coming to Thompson Arena and like it's a full 60 no matter what. And like anything could happen when you come to the woods and like I think we can get there and like what will help us next year is like we'll have five lines upfront well of 80 that that are actually defensemen and so they'll be like a healthy competition and like creating chances for people to prove themselves or not prove themselves and like making sure people know they have upward mobility is, is critical.

00:24:28:07 - 00:24:52:15
Speaker 1
You talk about and I love this process over outcome and I think to me it's always a dream and I was like, oh man, I would love to coach college. I just love being on college campuses even even going on visits and tours and stuff like that. I was just like, this is like the coolest thing ever. But one of the reasons I like it, it's kind of like high school where we see them when they come in as freshmen and they leave as seniors in high school.

00:24:52:15 - 00:25:13:17
Speaker 1
And they're just kind of hitting their prime physical maturation. It's a little bit of emotional in college. You're getting them now, you're getting them in their physical prime, they're going to hit, and especially women, because we know women hit their physical prime, kind of 22 ish rate. 23. Yeah. So, you know, you say process over outcome. What does that mean to you?

00:25:13:17 - 00:25:15:07
Speaker 1
That idea of process over outcome.

00:25:16:08 - 00:25:34:19
Speaker 2
Right? So like I always like, I always want to like I'll look back at like every practice and like what what well, what didn't go well and like what can we do better? And then like looking at that through a season. So for, for me this year, like one of the things was like if you don't have two goalies, you're not supposed to be able to play the game, right?

00:25:34:19 - 00:26:00:24
Speaker 2
So like you can not play the game and you're not taking a loss or you, you go and play the game and and that's what we did every time this year, regardless of if we had enough skaters, if we had enough goalies because for me, like 50% of the team hadn't played college hockey for so no matter what, like win or lose this year, like you're getting kids minutes and experience and you can't like you might, I believe not in my opinion.

00:26:00:24 - 00:26:25:22
Speaker 2
I believe that you can create some of that in practice, but not like real game minutes are hard to come by and kids need that clear line of communication and they need the why and all of that. And so for me, like that was one thing that I'd say like process over outcome and you go in and you're, you're hoping to win all of those games and you're going to do your best to win them.

00:26:26:01 - 00:26:43:14
Speaker 2
But no matter what the, the goal is to learn something from them and to be better from the experience and the process. Like I also think a lot about like just when that when the freshmen come to campus, like now like in year two, like I'll do that a little bit differently because it's like a it's a sprint.

00:26:43:14 - 00:27:02:09
Speaker 2
And so it's like The Hunger Games sign up for classes and then like you got a new roommate and you don't know where you're going. And it's like there's probably a few ways to ease some of the stresses for, for those kids. And if they if they feel better, they're going to play better and all that stuff. So I think about some of those things.

00:27:02:09 - 00:27:15:02
Speaker 2
And then like I think I think a lot about the office training just because I think for for our team in particular, like there's so much room for growth that that like I think that will be a game changer for us.

00:27:16:01 - 00:27:35:20
Speaker 1
I was able to watch it, but I think I watched about 20 of your games this year and it was each one of them offered something exciting like it was and seeing that and that's why I kind of like your idea the process over the outcome because did you what did you see the other day. We I forget who we were talking to and you said that person took the stand where this was good for these kids this way.

00:27:37:02 - 00:27:56:07
Speaker 1
And they, they kind of decided hey, we might not be on the win column successful, but we are going to drive a long term progress or success. I forget how you you said it so eloquently coach that I said it somebody else. But I like that idea because like you said, you get the kids got gaming spirit. Oh, they're not kids.

00:27:56:11 - 00:28:18:07
Speaker 1
The winning they got game experience in real life minutes in a really, really tough conference, which is really, really cool. And one of the things that I noticed was that you guys do go after things hard and fast like no matter what, like your you said play fast. Like it's just seemed to be that speed and you didn't say, well, just, just because you're a freshman, you can't, you know, it's OK.

00:28:18:16 - 00:28:22:20
Speaker 1
You pushed everybody on the team to be as good as they could be, which I thought was really cool.

00:28:23:10 - 00:28:41:12
Speaker 2
Yeah. So like for for me and I get that question of recruiting all the time is like, OK, as a freshman like will I play? And like, whether you play or not has nothing to do with if you're a freshman, like if you're, if you're good, you'll play and like you'll get the same opportunities to prove yourself as anyone else.

00:28:42:03 - 00:29:06:03
Speaker 2
But for our team, like we have a young team. But I think that I think it's awesome because I think that there are a lot of there's a lot of room for growth there and there's a lot of kids that are committed to changing the trajectory of the program. And honestly, that's one of the reasons that, like, I was excited about the job because like once I met the kids, I felt like I could make a positive impact.

00:29:06:03 - 00:29:29:13
Speaker 2
And for me, like being able to be successful, like not necessarily winning and losing right away, but like make a positive impact on the kids was important. But the second piece was that like I needed to feel like they were they were committed and that this part of their lives mattered because it is the Ivy League and there is there's a range of like I call them like hockey players, and then there's kids who play hockey and like what's that ratio for you?

00:29:30:23 - 00:29:48:06
Speaker 1
Interesting. And how do you say is there a way to separate that? Like how that's a tough one right there. There's kids that were probably like, Oh, I'm happy just to get school. I'm going to get my Ivy League degree. I made it here I am like, I'm sure you have. How do you separate? Because there is there tells that you that's that type of thing.

00:29:48:06 - 00:30:03:15
Speaker 2
I think it's like I actually think it's like a fairly, fairly easy read and like some of it is that like their habits and like what they do with their free time. And like you can hear like when they talk about hockey, are they passionate? Like they need to love it. Like it's so much of their life. They're it's hard.

00:30:03:15 - 00:30:19:16
Speaker 2
It's like it's the longest division one season like we're longer than lacrosse by like a good six weeks, right? So like we're practicing in September, like you're going as long as you can. Like it's just long and it's a lot of wear and tear and it's like so it has to be fun. You have to be passionate about it.

00:30:19:16 - 00:30:39:24
Speaker 2
But like being at Dartmouth now, like a lot of people, I'm doing it. Like, I'm dying to go to the Ivy League like the Ivy League is very diverse. Like like Harvard is very different than Dartmouth. Like it's right in Cambridge. And you got Harvard Square there and Dartmouth like you're up in the woods and that's totally different than Princeton or Columbia.

00:30:39:24 - 00:31:03:00
Speaker 2
And like, to me, as soon as you like, I I'm all about education. And I think that get the best education you can. No one can ever take it from you. But I think that's super important. But like, I also want someone who, like they mentioned hockey, I think like as opposed to like like they would take any spot at any Ivy League because it's the Ivy League.

00:31:03:00 - 00:31:13:22
Speaker 2
Like, I don't I don't want those kids like I want them to want Dartmouth and I, I want them if they weren't at the Ivy League to feel like they could make the most of their education because they're that proven, that determined, you know.

00:31:15:00 - 00:31:29:07
Speaker 1
Wow. Let me jump in. So you talked about Mark. You talked about the team was playing at full tilt like speed, speed, speed the whole time. I'm assuming that's the philosophy you want to go with or that's your philosophy.

00:31:30:00 - 00:31:59:13
Speaker 2
It like it's what I want to get to. But like if you and I think to get there, you get to you got to try it and play there. But if you looked at like our fitness testing in the fall, you probably could have like played it safer and like done something more appropriate. But like if in a year or two, I want to get them there, like then we got to do it now and it might mean that, like, will we run out of gas or like you got two thirds of a line that can do that.

00:31:59:13 - 00:32:19:11
Speaker 2
But like knowing that I have five lines next year and that's the style I want to play. Like I have all spring to say, Hey, we to get more fit. They, they make some progress and now like they have all summer and part of September to get to where they need to be. And to me that's long enough to like if they want to do it, they can do it.

00:32:19:11 - 00:32:27:21
Speaker 2
And if they're committed and that's they're like everyone says this is their dream, but is it really your dream? Like like is that cost OK to you?

00:32:29:14 - 00:32:31:02
Speaker 1
Anyway, first my question. You answer the.

00:32:31:02 - 00:32:31:12
Speaker 2
Question.

00:32:31:21 - 00:32:32:24
Speaker 1
No, I was going to ask the question.

00:32:33:00 - 00:32:33:12
Speaker 2
So sorry.

00:32:33:19 - 00:32:53:12
Speaker 1
You know that she's prepares the notes for the show than we did, buddy. So that because that's where I was basically all of the question was basically because I think the same way in the sense of I have a team and this the way I want to play, but it's the way I play. But I know some players are not at that level yet, but I'm OK with that because I know it's part of the process.

00:32:53:20 - 00:33:08:15
Speaker 1
And I know it's not going to look pretty right away. But I'm not thinking like now I'm thinking bigger picture. So it's going to be part of the process. But that's kind of what when you answer the question basic without knowing the rest was but sounds like you. You get the long term like you get like it's going to take time.

00:33:08:15 - 00:33:18:02
Speaker 1
We're going to take our licks and it just is what it is. But that's part of the process because you can't just talk about playing at that pace. You've got to play at that pace and we got to learn from it. We adjust and it is what it is.

00:33:18:09 - 00:33:40:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure. And for for me, like the reason why I was like a little bit easier to commit to that is that it's not like, it's not like this system I want to run requires like all of this skill or something that like maybe people can get maybe not like it's a controllable like we can get more fit, we can get faster and like we can if like it's a, it's a choice and like we have the resources to be able to do that.

00:33:40:19 - 00:33:50:03
Speaker 2
So to me, like if we're going to, if we're all in and we like we'll get there. Whereas if that type of point like what.

00:33:50:13 - 00:33:51:13
Speaker 1
Were you that type of player.

00:33:52:11 - 00:34:01:05
Speaker 2
Like fast? Oh, I was F1 wherever I was like, you know, like coming in hot no matter what that actually.

00:34:01:05 - 00:34:28:13
Speaker 1
So that leads me G.g man. Like, we've been obviously we're related because you lead me into this perfectly. Thank you very much for that. So you're a successful player like you. You're you played at Princeton National Level. You did some great stuff. And we've talked to a lot of coaches and and I we had our first couple of years as coaches, as young coaches were probably not pretty transitioning from player to coach.

00:34:29:02 - 00:34:45:03
Speaker 1
How is how was that? Because you're OK. You're still young. You're very you're you're young. You know, like that's really cool. But you seem to have transitioned to in that role of coach way smoother than I ever did. How did you do that? How was that coaching transition go?

00:34:46:02 - 00:35:03:24
Speaker 2
Well, so like there there are two things that like that I struggled with and like part of it goes back to like the underachieving overachieving kid like some kids like it bothers me. And so I find it like if they're not super coachable, like I want kids who want to be coached and you don't always get 100% of that.

00:35:03:24 - 00:35:32:16
Speaker 2
But I think that the two things that like stuck out to me that were difficult in transition were like connecting to the players that weren't like they're not like me. Like they weren't as committed. Like I would have done like anything like for my team, anything my coach said. So like when you talk about like the type of player, I was like, like I was fast for sure, but like I was a worker and like I worked for for everything I got like not, not super smooth, not super whatever.

00:35:32:16 - 00:35:53:22
Speaker 2
Like, I just like I can safely say like I outworked everyone I was with every time I was wherever I was but the other piece was like I was coachable. So like, I remember when I was on the national team and like on the national team, like I'm a third line player and and that was my I was like, so fired up to be there, like, just like you could have been like you're the water girl.

00:35:53:22 - 00:36:10:06
Speaker 2
Today was I was like, I'm like, like, I'd be ready to squirt the water. But so like Coach Smith at the time, he put me on the powerplay and he wanted to be like the net from presence and like, like, I probably put down that. I'm like five, seven rosters, but I'm like, I'm like five, five, five, six.

00:36:10:06 - 00:36:24:17
Speaker 2
Like, I'm like, I'm not big. So I was like, OK. And he's like, no. He's like, I just want you to he's like, you stay at the net. Like, you be annoying. Like, take away the goal. His eyes, like, just be be there. So I was like, yeah, I was like, like when we have the pocket to the net, he's like, no.

00:36:24:17 - 00:36:50:03
Speaker 2
He's like, just stay there. Like, literally go to the net. He's like, he's like, where? If I'm without you, like, we can play play with the other four. And so it's like, well, OK. So like, puck drops, like, I bust in that I'm there. Like, they eventually get the puck, whatever it happens, like for a few times. And then like, I really had no business being on a power play on national team, but like he used me as an example because then he's like, listen, like, we don't need you anymore.

00:36:50:03 - 00:37:07:17
Speaker 2
People realize, like, if you, if they do what I say, like they'll get, they'll get their chance or whatever. So like after that, like, I was never on a power play again. But I felt like I listened and was coachable. And so because I was like that and like, coaches are like, they're there to help you. Like, I've always respected the people I've worked with.

00:37:07:17 - 00:37:29:01
Speaker 2
Like, I struggle with those who, like, don't have the same train of thought. And then the other piece that I found tricky, which like other people probably transitioned better, but like hockey so fast and like you're scanning and taking in so much information organically that like sometimes like when people are like in the beginning like they're just they're just in the wrong spot.

00:37:29:13 - 00:37:42:19
Speaker 2
Like in my mind, I'm like, obviously, why would you go there? Like, and, and being able to articulate that, like, hey, like, this is why. And like this is what you going to look for? Because, like, just like, naturally, like, I would have gone to the other spot.

00:37:43:19 - 00:37:48:05
Speaker 1
Interesting. Did you play with Lindsey Frye I didn't.

00:37:48:22 - 00:37:50:10
Speaker 2
And she was like, just after me.

00:37:50:22 - 00:37:58:01
Speaker 1
OK, so yeah, I did some stuff with her in the past mental performance and she's there is no somebody that I know I was just curious, you're saying on the national teams.

00:37:58:01 - 00:37:59:02
Speaker 2
OK, so yeah.

00:37:59:13 - 00:38:16:17
Speaker 1
Squirrel moment. That's OK. We like we love those rabbit holes. I love again, it's just love the idea that you take you took your opportunity and you know, you you weren't you didn't OK. You were on the power play then. You weren't you weren't bitter about it. You just, you know, just kind of like yeah, you got better.

00:38:17:04 - 00:38:35:24
Speaker 1
But the other thing I want to I was obviously you're the type of person we talk about the 1080 ten concept of human behavior. Right where you have your your inner 10% of people they burn the hottest your best leaders there's your habits you know you know those people with the daily habits they're training they're doing everything they're eating, right?

00:38:35:24 - 00:39:02:12
Speaker 1
That's your inner ten then you have outside of that is your 80% so those are your like your normal people so they're coming every day and they're doing their job. They're not necessarily lighting the world on fire, but they're there. And then there's the outer ten which are the dusters which somehow we kind of all JD I'm sorry I had to pull that one out and, but you know, they're the people that land themselves in trouble.

00:39:02:12 - 00:39:22:08
Speaker 1
They, they just can't follow what the team wants or the culture is and those inner ten people and the outer ten people, they, they just cannot figure each other out. And so it's like and that's why you're saying like back to what you're saying earlier saying, you know, I was doing this when I didn't understand why somebody wasn't doing it.

00:39:22:13 - 00:39:33:15
Speaker 1
And I think that's you're the inner 10% trying to get that that concept and then they say the better teams you get the inner ten people to start drawing me into that inner circle and then yeah. Pushing out those outers.

00:39:33:24 - 00:40:02:05
Speaker 2
Yeah and for me like this this might be wrong but like I don't want my inner tend to waste their time on on the outer tend like I want like so many other people thrown in that like they're outlying that they really like that it's easy to have that conversation that like maybe we should make a different decision at this point and like creating that like this is how we do things and you know it's it's you're in our 30 you know which obviously takes time but like meet someone where they're at and drag them along with you.

00:40:02:07 - 00:40:02:11
Speaker 2
Yeah.

00:40:02:13 - 00:40:11:22
Speaker 1
Yeah for sure. Amazing. So back to like the coaching part where making the transition, when did you know you wanted to coach honestly?

00:40:11:22 - 00:40:27:23
Speaker 2
Like it was pretty, pretty organic for me. Like, so when I left Princeton, like I was still playing with the national team and then like I came back home and was training and like I started working in like in the weight room here. Well, not here, but in this gym and.

00:40:28:02 - 00:40:29:04
Speaker 1
Not as nice as the one.

00:40:29:12 - 00:41:00:18
Speaker 2
Yeah. And so like coaching was like from the get go was rewarding to me. And honestly, like there weren't like there weren't other industries that like I couldn't have seen myself like walking into a finance job or like really anything else. And so while I'm still playing, like then I start like I coach this new 12 to 12 vibe team that like I think we were like one, like one like 32 and, and one or like old 32 and one or something like we are so bad.

00:41:00:18 - 00:41:07:16
Speaker 2
But like it was a blast. And so to me like it just sort of like it sort of kept going.

00:41:09:12 - 00:41:12:01
Speaker 1
So your own 32 and you want to keep coaching.

00:41:12:18 - 00:41:30:01
Speaker 2
I don't know. It was like that, like you talk about like the transition of coaching like after that after the first game when we got like we all lit up and I was like oh my God you're so that like, and I'm like, I'm walking around like not across the ice like around the ice. And I'm like, so what do I say to these kids?

00:41:30:01 - 00:41:47:17
Speaker 2
Like, is so bad? Like we never were out of the zone. Like, we just like shots going in left and right. Like, I don't even remember the scoreboard the whole time. Like, what? What do I hear? These kids like? Like, hope's a powerful thing, but I don't like, like, I had nothing. And so I'm, like, going on, like, at the door.

00:41:47:17 - 00:41:55:02
Speaker 2
So, like, I just go in and the the kids are like, they're chit chatting, right? And they're like, Coach, can we have your cell number? Like.

00:41:56:10 - 00:41:57:12
Speaker 1
Can we go for ice cream?

00:41:57:14 - 00:42:07:02
Speaker 2
And I'm like, They don't. They don't. This is probably why they're that bad, but they don't care at all. And we're going to move on from this and maybe slightly better.

00:42:07:14 - 00:42:14:13
Speaker 1
So what fills your bucket? That's like, you know, like you're you got so much on the go. What fills your bucket?

00:42:15:22 - 00:42:37:15
Speaker 2
Like, honestly, like probably time with my family. Like, my like my family means the world to me. And they're like, my immediate family is super tight. Like, I'm obsessed with them all like I have three siblings and so like I have two boys my own now, but like my parents have like nine grandkids and like every Sunday that we're off, like, we have we have dinner at school.

00:42:37:15 - 00:42:57:12
Speaker 2
Sorry, it's my parents. So it's like 4 p.m. like you get there, you hang out with everyone, and it's awesome. So for me, like, it's probably my like time with my boys and like where I can, like, just be present and like turn off the phone for a bit. And how does that work? How's that work? Well, then I turn it back on and like, oh my God, 100 emails.

00:42:57:24 - 00:42:58:13
Speaker 2
My goodness.

00:42:59:23 - 00:43:13:14
Speaker 1
Now having the boys in tow to like, does that think that you think having your own kids has changed your approach to coaching at all? Because I always say I always say people who have kids teach different and coach different than they have one. They have their own.

00:43:14:05 - 00:43:33:22
Speaker 2
Yeah. So for, for me, like there's a few pieces that like so so in the beginning, like as a like whether it's right or wrong, like, and, and to be clear, like, I think it's wrong if people judge it, but like being a mom and a coach, like whether it's the people who are stay at home moms or the people who are like, oh, like will she be able to do that?

00:43:33:22 - 00:43:52:05
Speaker 2
Like, there's like so much judgment. So I feel like early on with my, like with my oldest Mac, like I used to like be really selective with like I'd read the room, like whether or not I mentioned I had a kid or not and it was like, like or they judge like, will I be available for them this or that?

00:43:52:13 - 00:44:14:07
Speaker 2
And then like, I got to a point where I was sort of like, I know that this makes me like, it's made me a better human. It's giving me perspective and like, it's allowed me to see things through different lenses and like I'm convicted that I'm a better coach because of it. And I'm also like, for the people that are like, oh, that must be so hard being on the road or this and this and that.

00:44:14:07 - 00:44:30:15
Speaker 2
Like like one of my biggest goals is like, so first and foremost, like to raise two boys that like they'll be good humans and they'll change the world. Like, because I think the world is crazy right now. And if we have, if I, if I can do my part and like do a good job raising them, like we'll be in a better spot.

00:44:30:15 - 00:44:54:13
Speaker 2
But like for them, like they see mom going to work and like, I hope that that makes them proud and that they see that I'm committed to something and like they have the privilege of like growing up in this environment, like they think that the women at Dartmouth are like, they think they're so cool. And like Matt, like my son thinks that we go to learn a skating and like he's at the door like he wants to be for like he's got to be on time.

00:44:54:13 - 00:45:12:03
Speaker 2
Like he's like he thinks he should do like a warm up because like, our kids do a warm up like all of these things that like people really think I'm a crazy parent, but like, he's never seen any like, he's never seen low level hockey, like, so it's always like the real deal, right? So, like, gets up to the door and they're like, all right, like, McIntyre, you can come out now.

00:45:12:08 - 00:45:40:03
Speaker 2
He's like, yeah, like, announce me. And it's like, why? He's like, you can announce me. And I'm like, oh, my God. Like, and I feel like he wants to be announce like, the kids. I'm like, why are you like, you just announce me? Like, Oh, but so, like, I think there's like, so many, so many benefits to, to it and like, to me, like, there, I'm I'm helping develop these young women who, like some of them, may have their their own families one day and like, I want people to see that, like, you can do it all.

00:45:40:03 - 00:45:47:18
Speaker 2
And like, I don't judge people who choose not to work or choose to. How are you? Do you? But for me, like, that's, that's my goal.

00:45:48:06 - 00:46:13:14
Speaker 1
Love it. I used to take Laureano is funny because write me a story like she was in gear. I think she was maybe 11 and I bring her out to our high school practices and we had some like wicked teams. And I remember she, she just got into a drill one day. The girls put her into a drill and she got smoked Heather Hood dress and one of my big D, she's like a six foot tall D like just a big D just accidentally collided with her and Lorenza.

00:46:13:18 - 00:46:26:19
Speaker 1
She didn't cry. Nothing like that. And then I don't even know. And they're like, Oh, I think Lauren just got run over. I was like, Is there anything broken or anything I Yeah. And she popped up and you got back, and I was like, You know what? This is the environment I want her in because she was, you know, these.

00:46:26:19 - 00:46:43:22
Speaker 1
And Gigi, your boys are the same. They've grown up around all kinds of stuff like this. And and Gigi has two sons. They're twins. And, like you said, having a positive influence. And I went to Gigi's house a couple of weeks ago and their 14 year old boys, I got hugs from 14 year old boys when I came in.

00:46:44:07 - 00:46:48:09
Speaker 1
And, you know, it doesn't seem like it means a lot, but to me it does.

00:46:48:17 - 00:46:49:17
Speaker 2
It's huge.

00:46:49:17 - 00:46:58:23
Speaker 1
It's huge. And they hugged me when I laughed and I was just like, man, I was just so those are the little things that matter to me. The 50 bucks they left under the pillows.

00:47:01:00 - 00:47:05:23
Speaker 2
A and I.

00:47:07:03 - 00:47:23:07
Speaker 1
Got to spoil the boys only can. But you know, and to me it goes to the idea of, you know, you talk about body language doesn't whisper a lot of times in your coaching. I know you're big on body language and I see your boys and they're always like energetic and they're not shy and they're doing their thing.

00:47:23:07 - 00:47:29:18
Speaker 1
Like, I think that's one of the coolest things ever that we could do as parents is just put them out there and say, Hey, you're part of this world, right?

00:47:30:09 - 00:47:49:02
Speaker 2
Yeah. Like, I mean, they get like, they come in the gym every day, like a little bit before school, a little bit after school. And like so they're interacting with like whether it's adults or like the kids in the afternoon or like the college athletes in the summer or like, I mean, like they're in here when, like, NBA all stars are in here or like whoever it is like.

00:47:50:02 - 00:48:05:17
Speaker 2
And I think it's like it's awesome. That they're just exposed to to so much in like different types of people and like they think that's that's the norm. But like, they also see like the effort and like the focus and, you know, like, so you get start buying a line and like you get to clean up when you're done.

00:48:05:17 - 00:48:11:18
Speaker 2
And there's so many like little things that that they learn organically that I'm not like trying to teach them.

00:48:12:18 - 00:48:31:21
Speaker 1
One of the things and I know you talk about families being a big part of your life your parents were super supportive of and he said your dad was a carpenter your mom's a nurse. They raised three kids and, you know, put you guys into the world and doing things. What are some of the lessons that you've learned from your folks along the way?

00:48:32:13 - 00:48:56:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, so there are four total of us. I have three siblings, so there's three girls and then baby brother. But so for me, like one of the things was like they were so they're so hardworking. Like my like they never went to college, like the opportunities I had. But they like they did everything. They did everything they could to provide us the opportunities to be successful.

00:48:56:23 - 00:49:14:13
Speaker 2
Like if we were willing to work for it, and so like I think they had a good balance there. But things like my dad's a Finnish carpenter by trade, so like that, like he cares about every detail and like if your name's on it, like you do it well, like if it can be if, if it can be better than good, not good enough.

00:49:14:13 - 00:49:34:23
Speaker 2
And that's just the standard. And that like you have to be, be proud of the work that you did and like I can always remember them. Like both of my parents are like super kind people, really respectful, but like they always know people's names and like look them in the eye and like just, just telling me that, like, people will always remember how you made them feel and like that that was really important to me.

00:49:34:23 - 00:50:02:02
Speaker 2
But like they I think the amount that they sacrifice is for me to be able to do what I was able to do like it what it was in part because I was committed to it too. But like it always made like everything I do, I'm like, I hope I make them proud. And like even like being at being a head coach, my like my dad always checks in and it's funny to say, like, watch the games and be like, did you like did you think about working on that and like working on it?

00:50:02:05 - 00:50:08:02
Speaker 2
Like, Coach Dad? Yeah, but even like, I'll go to a showcase and I'll be like, did the kids like you? Like.

00:50:09:23 - 00:50:15:15
Speaker 1
That's amazing. Do you ever listen to the book The Carpenter? Or as I say, listen, did you ever read the book The Carpenter?

00:50:15:22 - 00:50:25:10
Speaker 2
Oh, John Gordon yeah. Yeah, I've read. I think I've read. I think I've read all his books, but maybe like if he's come out with a new one, maybe not like I love.

00:50:26:02 - 00:50:40:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, you're just talking about your dad and being a carpenter, and that's the whole thing. This guy's a carpenter and the finished product and but it's about people and communication. It's not some. Like, he wants to know the person before you construct something their house. And, man, you would love that. Jump on the carpenter.

00:50:40:17 - 00:50:41:10
Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.

00:50:41:19 - 00:51:00:05
Speaker 1
Yeah. So you're talking about I'm shifting gears here because this is so cool and we're talking about all this serious stuff about hockey and training and stuff like that. But like, coach, you're a movie star, too, which is something I got to throw in the show. Like, so I follow you guys on Instagram and your husband on Instagram.

00:51:00:05 - 00:51:01:17
Speaker 1
And I saw this post. I was like, you guys are.

00:51:01:22 - 00:51:06:21
Speaker 2
Like like I was like, how do you even know that? Like, I tell like zero people, like oh.

00:51:07:12 - 00:51:12:10
Speaker 1
Man. Like Batman and tell me, how did like how was that?

00:51:12:13 - 00:51:34:02
Speaker 2
So, you know, like, what's funny, like, this is, is so ignorant of me, but like, I'm like I'm a big reader. Like, I love nonfiction, but, like, I barely watch any, any movies, which is why this is like, sort of funny. But you guys had mentioned, like, Lex Luther and so, like, I was in in Batman versus Superman or whatever, which, like, so when Lex Luther was doing like a like what?

00:51:34:04 - 00:51:45:11
Speaker 2
He was like the main man event in this, like in the scene that I'm in or whatever. But like, I turn to my husband, who knows? Like, I feel like everything about everything but is like a big movie guy. And I'm like, who's that cat?

00:51:47:17 - 00:51:52:19
Speaker 2
And he's like, you're not like who you just less is more right now. Oh, my God.

00:51:53:13 - 00:51:57:11
Speaker 1
Oh, my God. That's where the movie went. There was this I missed the memo.

00:51:58:00 - 00:52:15:09
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, um, so I guess it's like a long way short story, but basically, like, my, my husband treated Ben Affleck for like, basically a decade, but in the first movie, I forgot, like the very first movie I was in. But like, when I, when I first met Ben and like, I'm like, I'm not in the movies, and Ben's an awesome guy.

00:52:15:10 - 00:52:40:14
Speaker 2
Like, I really like him. I got to know him and Jen really well, and I'm appreciative of our friendship. So perhaps it was that. But like, when I when I first met him, like, my my parents grew up in Austin, and my grandmother still lives there. So it's like a mile from from Harvard. And at the time, Walter was training Ben, like for the movie The Town, like at Harvard and so I dropped him off, went to go see my grandmother, like came back, picked him up.

00:52:40:14 - 00:52:58:22
Speaker 2
And so I'm just waiting in the car, like they're finishing up their workout and like 5 minutes later, like, Walter doesn't come out. Ben comes out as like, what? Like you don't want to see me, like, know, like, well, I wasn't trying to bother you. And so, like, I go in like a half hour later, like, they had known each other that long, but it was like this bromance, and I'm like, the third wheel.

00:52:59:05 - 00:53:20:07
Speaker 2
But anyways, so at that point, like, Ben rips off his shirt, like they're doing it's not like they're just messing around, whatever. And so then fast forward, we're driving home, so I'll just like, oh, what do you think? And I'm like, I'm super nice. And he's like, what do you think about, like, his body? Because they're going from, like, the town that he had to get, like, super clean for the town or whatever and whatever was happening.

00:53:20:07 - 00:53:41:08
Speaker 2
So he asked me, and so I said, I like sauce, skinny fat, like, you know, like, just like not that well, you know, but I'm in the car with my like, we're driving home like Ben's not with us. And fast forward like two weeks later, like, same thing happens. I go to see my grandma, I come back Ben Cousins comes out all five because like, you think I'm seeing that like I am a third wheel here.

00:53:41:10 - 00:54:00:15
Speaker 2
Oh, my gosh. But anyways, like, they train for they trained at like 3 a.m. for because of like what time the movie needed to be filmed and all this stuff and like that was really cool to watch. But towards the end because like Ben, it felt like anyway, like Ben had felt like Walter it sacrificed so much, made this happen.

00:54:00:15 - 00:54:18:15
Speaker 2
Whatever. He said, hey, like, I got a speaking role for you. You want it on the movie. And so Walter said, Hey, what about if he said, So many people have helped me be able to do this. What if I got, like, a few people in as extras or whatever? So he's like, Well, how many? So like, Walter tells in five, he's like, Sure, whatever I bring him.

00:54:18:24 - 00:54:39:21
Speaker 2
And so that's how I got into the town, which is like only funny because, like, any time the town is on, like, someone text me and like, no one ever see, like, what he Walter's really hard to find in it and like, he gets so bummed out about it where, like, I could have cared less about being in the movie, and he was so fired up about it and like, just no credit that's outstanding.

00:54:40:02 - 00:54:54:19
Speaker 1
Allowed. See that? Did you guys start training, like, more famous people? But I have the dad have the dad board that's the problem. Maybe I always get the dad, but now it's awesome. Now don't be fired off my shirt and throwing stuff in the weight room. But that's.

00:54:54:19 - 00:54:55:14
Speaker 2
Just me.

00:54:56:06 - 00:54:57:05
Speaker 1
You guys have.

00:54:57:05 - 00:54:57:11
Speaker 2
Been.

00:54:58:08 - 00:55:19:10
Speaker 1
No, no. I'll do it if you can. So now so do going back to some, some leadership stuff, if you could think back and I know you've been doing the leadership and coaching thing for a long time, what would be the best piece of leadership advice you've ever gotten? And as we're starting to wrap this up, what would you want to leave our listeners and coaches?

00:55:19:11 - 00:55:27:04
Speaker 1
We have a lot of coaches, business leaders who listen to our show. What would you want to leave with them as your piece of advice.

00:55:30:04 - 00:55:31:11
Speaker 2
So that's a good question.

00:55:34:00 - 00:55:43:13
Speaker 1
Like if you said, I'll make it easy, I know you're a reader, what's your favorite like name? Top five, top five reads for coaching and leadership to make it easier, telling you, OK, three, three, coach three. Sorry.

00:55:43:13 - 00:56:23:00
Speaker 2
Oh, yeah. So like I like culture code. Um, I like that one. I like the Habit Dude series like Tim Elmore. I think it's like basically like images and like telling stories like how to teach lessons and like develop. I think it's a pretty cool series. Um, I like Bernie Brown. Like, what I was going to answer was like, if someone just said, like, be your authentic self and like, bring all of you to every situation you're in, like, do the best you can and then be willing to like self-evaluate.

00:56:23:10 - 00:56:45:08
Speaker 2
So like if you go all in and you're, you like right or wrong, like they're getting, they're getting to you. And I think that helps build trust right away. And I think like more of you is always better, even if you have to like learn from that. And that way to think like a lot of people early on are like hesitant to like they're hesitant to be all in to be vulnerable.

00:56:45:08 - 00:56:56:19
Speaker 2
And I think that that's huge for like especially coaching now. Like everybody needs to feel like included and a part of it and like letting them get to know you is critical to you getting to know them.

00:56:59:07 - 00:57:10:02
Speaker 1
I sent Brené Brown a an email, see if she'd be on our podcast. Got a message back. She's a little busy. You can jump on our podcast. So Bernie, when you're listening to this eventually.

00:57:10:04 - 00:57:13:13
Speaker 2
I can't imagine what. Yeah, it sounds like it's her second shout out here.

00:57:15:09 - 00:57:16:18
Speaker 1
Bernie, we're here for you.

00:57:16:23 - 00:57:17:07
Speaker 2
We're here.

00:57:17:22 - 00:57:24:06
Speaker 1
Yeah. I watched that Netflix series show she she had done and I was like, that's a game changer.

00:57:24:15 - 00:57:25:13
Speaker 2
Yeah. Yeah. You see.

00:57:26:13 - 00:57:28:04
Speaker 1
You don't watch. Sorry. You don't watch.

00:57:28:10 - 00:57:42:13
Speaker 2
I yeah, I like it. I would watch something like that, though. Like, um, like I watch becoming like the becoming by Michelle Obama. Like, I read the book and then watch that series. Like, that was pretty cool. I just became very. Am I allowed to ask you a question on this?

00:57:42:13 - 00:57:43:07
Speaker 1
Absolutely.

00:57:43:15 - 00:57:49:14
Speaker 2
OK, so if you guys could meet one person, like, have lunch with them, we can't like whatever you guys want, who would you meet?

00:57:49:22 - 00:57:51:07
Speaker 1
Oh, a library that.

00:57:52:17 - 00:57:58:07
Speaker 2
Let's go with a live you get a connection, you can call them up.

00:58:00:03 - 00:58:26:16
Speaker 1
Oh, man, that's tough. One person, there's so many good people out there that are like, honestly, nothing. I got nothing on that. I'm just everyday's new, a different bucket different thing. I could fall in one. Yeah, one direction one day. I want to hear this and another damn one. So I'm sorry, I'm going back to Britney Brown. I never thought I would sit there and watch for an hour 50 either an hour and a half about being vulnerable.

00:58:27:07 - 00:58:45:14
Speaker 1
I'm like, now I got her book on my bookstand before I go to bed and I'm reading and just different things like that for me. So I have an answer for that. I just love reading and learning. And through this podcast, fortunately, we've been able to talk to some really, really neat people with a dove diverse backgrounds all over the place.

00:58:45:14 - 00:59:07:09
Speaker 1
And I'd say, Dr. Gilbert, I'd love to have lunch or dinner with that guy because he just embodies so much of what we're talking about. Mental performance and just being a human and getting the most out of being yourself as a good leader. So that would be one of them. And I would also say I would love to meet Jocko one day, so that would be really cool.

00:59:07:09 - 00:59:11:17
Speaker 1
But he's not a man of many words in terms of other than.

00:59:12:07 - 00:59:13:00
Speaker 2
Like a brunch.

00:59:13:07 - 00:59:28:07
Speaker 1
It would have to be a brunch. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So yeah, that'd be that's cool. Yeah. Wow. Yeah, for sure. So but but Dr. Gilbert would be my top one, so it's nice one list. Thanks for the question. Yeah, you put us on a spot. I love it. I love it. Reverse psychology.

00:59:29:11 - 00:59:30:08
Speaker 2
Oh, that.

00:59:30:15 - 00:59:48:19
Speaker 1
So we're looking forward to next season, obviously. And I think there's you got it's going to be an exciting team to watch next year. I know. And unfortunately, I won't be able to get down to as many games because I can't get back to my, my nine to five. But it's one of those ones where I, I love the process over the outcome.

00:59:48:19 - 01:00:10:22
Speaker 1
I love the habits like you, you embody as a coach. And as a leader. A lot of the stuff that we're preaching on this, our shows in our series of, of what we're talking about and it seems like all the successful coaches, all the successful leaders and the successful people, people that we've talked to, whether they're coaches, players, business leaders, they come in and they share very similar concepts.

01:00:10:22 - 01:00:29:12
Speaker 1
What you talk about, it comes down to your habits, being good people, being able to communicate, all that type of stuff, build trust. I mean, it's amazing. I love it. It's and it's a lot of work. It's a lot of work to kind of build that. And that's what I see. Like, the culture is a big thing that has a bunch of little bricks that support it up, right?

01:00:29:23 - 01:00:39:19
Speaker 2
Yeah, for sure. Because I mean, it feels like much less work when it's like enjoyable with the right people and like you feel like it's going even if it's little by little, like it's going in the right direction.

01:00:40:14 - 01:00:51:15
Speaker 1
I mean, how much, how much say or anything you have on you want to get some quotes up on the wall, something painted here in the arena like those like how much say do you have on any of those types of things.

01:00:53:15 - 01:01:06:10
Speaker 2
Inside of the well? So like, I guess the answer would be a lot because like we're getting we'll get renovated at the end of next season. So like the men's coach and I will design like whatever goes goes up like with architects.

01:01:07:19 - 01:01:24:06
Speaker 1
And just because you talked about culture we talked about that whole and sometimes some schools are handcuffed and like this that, you know, the ad or somebody else way above your head kind of makes all those decisions with some input. I'm just curious where they kind of it went for you specifically because if you're trying to get to where you want to get to where, how much support you have.

01:01:25:04 - 01:01:30:18
Speaker 2
I actually think there's a lot of support there. Yeah, it's cool. I think you'd have a lot of leeway there.

01:01:31:08 - 01:01:46:16
Speaker 1
If you were big believers that you could put the words up on the wall, but you got to live by it. And the people that walk in every day need to know what the standard is like. If you're going to put, you know, resilience on the wall, what does that mean? Effort? What does that mean? Right. Define it.

01:01:47:09 - 01:02:09:18
Speaker 2
Yeah, exactly. So like as a staff, we had talked about like doing that in year one and like my we didn't and because like I felt like you got a like show up and learn what you have in the room and also like get on the same page in terms of like what that what that means and like so for like for a year or two, we'll do, we'll do something like that.

01:02:10:05 - 01:02:18:16
Speaker 1
Amazing. Amazing. Well, g anything else because she's got an early morning ahead of her. So yeah, three in the morning Ben Affleck 61 of the.

01:02:18:16 - 01:02:23:18
Speaker 2
3:00 on a 530 type of girl.

01:02:24:13 - 01:02:45:05
Speaker 1
Leslie was awesome having you on the show again I look forward to seeing you for the next three years and what you're doing with this program and beyond that because I think it's really cool and it's fun to watch from the outside and I'm always picking up pointers from what's going on on your bench and outside the bench and stuff like that leadership stuff and keep up the amazing work at Dartmouth.

01:02:45:18 - 01:02:47:09
Speaker 2
Awesome. Well, thanks so much for having me.

01:02:48:05 - 01:02:53:18
Speaker 1
Well, that does it for this episode of Benchmark thanks for listening. Until next time.

01:02:54:13 - 01:02:55:11
Speaker 2
Keep crushing it.

01:02:56:13 - 01:02:57:18
Speaker 3
Yeah, you nailed it.